Notaires Fees

[Mim]

We are currently buying a house and have been told that the notaires fees are usually between 2.5 and 8% of the property price, the cheaper the house the higher the rate. Working on these figures, we have been given a quote from our notaire which seems far higher than the 8%. Is there a standard rate or are these figures suggestions? Has anyone else experienced this?

[hastobe]

There is a fee calculator here

Kathie

[BJSLIV]

You will see the lower the price, the higher the percentage, due to some fixed elements. Its particularly costly buying something under 20,000. Also if you are buying through the Notaire (IE Using him as the Estate Agent ) there will be another 2 to 5% to pay, which is not included in the calculation above.

[Tia]

Does anyone know how long it takes a Notaire to finalise the purchase account. We were told we have to pay more as everything is rounded up and then when everything is finalised the Notaire returns any monies owing to us. We have been waiting since July, is this the norm for the account to be settled. I keep getting told by our agent in France that the notaire is very busy and will get to it when she can.

 

 

[Will]

It is supposed to be within a few weeks, and unless there are complicated tax issues, there is no reason why it cannot be done quickly. It's not really down to the notaire, they have to wait for the registration to go through, which, as French fonctionnaires are involved, can take forever.

In reality it seems it can take anything up to a couple of years. It may be better if you ask the notaire direct, as sometimes, when they have received the information, they either just haven't got round to it, or they have done it and it is sitting in your file, waiting for somebody to send it out. Don't bank on a big refund, although you can be surprised sometimes.

[Chancer]

I think that I got a 10 euro refund so I was not put out by the time that it took.

I question(ed) the post about paying another 2-5% if not using an agent, surely that is where you save by buying direct from the Notaire?

Instant correction! I paid 6000 euros on top of a purchase price of 40000 Euros so about 13% (dont have a calculator).

I wonder how much of that was the notaires commission or to put it another way how much would I have paid if using an agent (on top of the agents commision of course)

[Will]

The 2-5% figure mentioned in respect to notaire's fees is the 'frais de négociation', i.e. the notaire's sales commission that you pay instead of an agency commission if buying through a notaire rather than an agency. It is subject to 19.6% TVA.

Using the calculator referenced above, on a 40,000€ property you would pay notaires' legal fees of 3600€ (the 'variable amount', part of which you may get refunded, is 737€, which the calculator has rounded up to 750€ so there is an inconsistency to start with that's bigger than JR's refund).

A 40,000€ house is definitely at the 'cheaper' end of the market, i.e. beow the euro equivalent of 300,000FF, so would be in the 5% bracket of the negotiation fee.

So you would pay -   purchase price - 40,000€
                                 legal costs - 3600€
                                 Frais de negociation @ 5% - 2000€
                                 TVA on 2000€ - 392€

A total of 45,992€ if my sums are right.

Had you bought using an agent you would have paid, assuming an average agency commission of 7%, 43,600 plus 2800 = 46,400€.

So a difference of 408€. Not exactly the fortune that some people reckon can be saved, is it?

Of course, the difference is greater with more expensive houses, and had you bought privately you would have paid 2392€ less.

[Cassis]

Not much use at the moment as it is not working yet, but with any luck you should sooner or later be able to calculate notaire fees online here:

Notary Fees Calculator

[Will]

The calculator referenced by hastobe is working - and although the national notaires' site doesn't yet have a working calculator, the Paris subsidiary has a far more detailed one that I'm told a lot of professionals use - http://www.paris.notaires.fr/frais_mut_ecran1.php

[Cassis]

Sorry, I did not notice Hastobe's link.  It is very tiny.

[Chancer]

I have just dug out the notaires final account.

I purchased a bankrupt hotel direct from the liquidator via the notaire, the purchase price was 40.000 euros in April 2004

Total Taxe = E38781 which was made up of  E264 verse au tresore, E2940.98 emoluments and E576.43 TVA

Droits aux hypothèques were another E2016

Making a total of 5791.14 euros paid in addition to the purchase price, there were additional adjustments for taxes foncieres etc but I have ignored these.

For me the biggest saving, which I didn't fully appreciate at the time, was that I paid a fraction of what was then the current market value because the liquidator only needed to recover the monies owed against the property.

The notaire wanted to market the property on some kind of sealed bid offer or at auction (with 40K as the reserve price) and initially would not accept my offer but negotiation won the day.

I have since met many local builders and developers etc who had been watching the building for many years, they all told me "the first we knew that it was on the market was when we learned that it had been sold to an Englishman, we didn't get a look in!"

[hastobe]

As Will pointed out the savings depend on the value of the property.

In contrast with the calculation above our savings (by using a notaire rather than an estate agent) were well in excess of

10,000 euros - definitely worthwhile.

Kathie

[Kate]

I thought that the vendor paid the estate agent's fees? As a buyer, what fees would I have to pay, then? (I know about the notaire's).