BF/ Cancellation request for info

[Aitch]

After last week's last minute posting about BF/ cancellation, apart from writing a letter later today to complain, my feeling is that they must have known the 'Normandie' had 'technical problems' in Caen, I wasn't offered any accomodation or compensation, although they did offer the St. Malo crossing the same night if I could get down there in time (190mls door to ferry in 21/2hrs.) Motorcycle yes, fully loaded car,NO!

I eventually transfered to the Sunday fastcat  to make the best of a bad job of all the re-arrangements. I do feel very annoyed as it is (to me ) below their usual service.

Do I have any other comeback's against them considering that all plans/ arrangements went completely out of the window?

Regards, Aitch

[Eslier]

Caen to St Malo is a very easy trip. It takes just under two hours by car.    Usually, when BF have to transfer people to another departure port, they offer cash handouts towards the additional fuel costs when people turn up at the port.

When they had problems with the Pont Aven the year before last I understand they transferred passengers onto alternative crossings and gave them a full refund of what they had paid.

[Aitch]

Thanks for the info, but it would have been impossible for me to get to Portsmouth in time for the St. Malo crossing (which was being delayed an hour as a result). I could have made the LD night sailing in time, but it wouldn't let me book over the internet, their office was also closed. BF don't have an arrangement with them to transfer passengers as they used to with PO in similar circumstances. I couldn't even get a travel-lodge. Whilst these were not BF fault, they did compound the issue with the late cancellation, and I do feel more help could have been given. Perhaps I'll get somewhere with them, i don't know, but I will try a letter and see what happens.

Aitch

[malcw]

Any idea what the technical problems were? Yesterday afternoon we were on the Normandie when just a few minutes out from Ouistreham in smooth seas it suddenly heeled over a LONG way, chucking people and stuff all over the place. Even the crew looked scared. All they announced - eventually - was that it was a 'technical problem' that had been resolved.

[Aitch]

Unfortunately, they wouldn't tell me what the problems were, when I asked. Tried to look a little 'blank' about it, at the reception desk. However, as we took the following morning's Normandie Express, to make the best of a bad job, we passed the Normandie mid channel and she was listed over to one side. We travelled back home on the Normandie and had no problems whatsoever. I have written a letter of complaint so it will be interesting to see what response I get.

Aitch

[BQF]

I wondered when someone would post something about this!!  I was in the restaurant when the 'Normandie' listed over - I couldn't believe the reaction of some of the passengers, which was nothing short of absolute hysteria - it really didn't help the situation to have so many people screaming and running round the place, although I must admit I did think that the explanation of 'technical problem' was a bit lightweight.

It seemed a serious problem to me - the ship banked so hard I thought we were trying to avoid a collision - if it was a computer failure they need to sort that out as in rougher seas it could have been a real disaster rather than a 'technical problem'......I thought the Normandie had been sold to DFDS anyway - when is it being dcecommissioned????

Let me know if you get any compensation....I'll certainly send off a letter to complain in that case! 

 

 

[Aitch]

I don't want to sound alarmist, but I am not sure if our 'technical problems' were the same as yours as we weren't on the ship. It's just that the sailing was cancelled at short notice. However, my background is that I was a 3rd Officer in the merchant navy with one of the tanker companies so I understand how a ship can be trimmed using full/ empty ballast tanks, as well as oil and water tanks being moved around to accomodate exact trim levels. These operations can be carried out to compensate for the vehicular loads on a ferry as well. Whether they have the same overall effect I do not know, but certainly during offloading oil tankers we have induced a list of 10 to 15 degrees to port or starboard to use the stripping pumps to clear the tanks. I do not think this has happened on the Normandie. However, I have a half brained idea that if the stabilisiers were in use and suffered a hydraulic failure this would cause the stabilisers to drop down and this is why the sudden listing happened. Even a sudden hydraulic loss for the steering gear could induce similar handling characteristics. I do not think it has any reference to the 'Free Enterprise' as legislation has tightened up all methods and procedures. In returning last Saturday (29th) they did not even play the safety announcements (7short-1 long) as we left Caen? Makes you wonder what is happening doesn't it? It's worth sending off a letter of complaint regardless. If you were unerved, then all the other passengers and crew were as well. The card on board I was given for Customer Services is as follows:

Gareth Bewley,Customers Services Manager, BAI (UK) Ltd., Millbay, Plymouth, Devon, PL1 3EW. tel 08709 010 500([email protected])

 

[Hagar]

There is some more information here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4967736.stm

From what I have read the incident happened just as the ship left the fairway (channel) for open sea. This would normally be the time the captain would switch over from manual steering to automatic pilot. It is quite possible that is where the problem occurred. i.e it actually was a "technical fault".

rgds

hagar

 

 

 

[Will]

BQF - it was the Val de Loire that was sold to DFDS.

I can confirm what Aitch says about loading, ballasting etc. From what I have picked up elsewhere it seems that the problem that caused the sudden list was a steering gear failure. I know of one of the former P&OSL Dover-Calais ferries was prone to losing its steering at awkward moments - such as entering Calais harbour - though I never heard of it listing like that. Passengers on that ship would only have been aware of hearing the anchor chains followed by a fairly rapid stop. But in that case the crew were well versed in how to deal with it. I believe the ship in question may have been the Aquitaine, now operating for LD Lines as the Norman Spirit.

It is interesting that you mention the Normandie's stabilisers. There is just something about that ship's motion in strongish seas (say force 6-7) that has made me suspect the stabilising system has not been 100% for a year or so now.

[Hagar]

Will,

If the steering gear fault caused a sudden and substantial rudder movement. e.g hard over  then that could definitely induce a violent roll to port - 15 deg would be about right.

Do you know if the stabilisers on the Normandie are of the "folding fin" variety ?. If so then it is unlikely that they would have been deployed at that stage of the voyage..

I agree with you about the stabilsed motion in rough seas but I think that's common to most ships using active fin stabilistaion.

rgds

hagar

 

 

[Will]

I agree with what you say about if something caused a sudden movement of the rudder to hard over, then there would certainly be a marked roll to one side. Interestingly, going back to the days when we navigated by Decca rather than GPS I remember being on sea trials with a large motor yacht near Portsmouth. It had an autopilot linked to the Decca navigator, and the Decca suddenly decided that we were somewhere in the vicinity of the Equator, causing the autopilot to demand a rapid about turn. Nothing failed, in fact it worked rather too well... There were rumours - never confirmed or denied - that the Navy was trialling a bit of kit that inadvertently jammed Decca signals, setting your location at all the zeroes in terms of coordinates.

I agree that if the ship was that close to port the stabilisers would probably not have been deployed, and I doubt whether a stabiliser problem would ever be severe enough to have that effect. I don't know what system Normandie uses, it's quite likely to be Brown Bros folding fin type, which seem very popular on passenger ships. There's just something about the roll motion that seems more marked now on Normandie than hitherto, certainly in comparison with Mont St Michel and the other ferries.

[Hagar]

[quote user="Will "]

I don't know what system Normandie uses, it's quite likely to be Brown Bros folding fin type, which seem very popular on passenger ships. There's just something about the roll motion that seems more marked now on Normandie than hitherto, certainly in comparison with Mont St Michel and the other ferries.

[/quote]

Could it be speed related?. The stabilisers would have been originally designed for optimal operation at the ship's design cruising speed. If, as often happens, they are running the ship at less than cruising speed then the stabilisers will not be operating 100%. Otherwise it might be some change to ballast/fuel tank configurations or indeed different loading patterns from the original design that would change the ship's natural rolling period from the one used in the stabiliser design calculations.

Getting a bit off topic now - I will put away the Anorak.

rgds

Hagar 

[Aitch]

Why is it that as I've read through and contibuted to the post that I cannot get the Captain Pugwash theme tune and the Black Pig out of my head?

Aitch

[malcw]

I tried the email address, but it wasn't known. Neither was a .co.uk ending instead of .com. I couldn't see any obvious address on the website either, so I may actually have to post a real letter unless anyone else has an email that works?

[Aitch]

I think I missed out a full stop; the address should read;

[email protected] or an alternative, www.brittanyferries.com

tel: 08709 010 500

fax 08709 009 476

Postal address ok,

apologies for the errors,

Rgds

Aitch

[malcw]

Thanks - email now sent successfully. I might even get a reply.

[Will]

There is an article about it here: http://www.portsmouthtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=455&ArticleID=1478683

[meadowd]

I was a passenger on the Normandie when it listed over to the port side. My motorcycle was damaged and whilst reporting the damage to the Chief Officer I enquired as to what was the cause of the problem. He advised me that the electronic control to the rudder failed whilst the ship was travelling at 20 knots causing it to list over at 35 degrees !! I am told by a seafaring friend that 45 degrees is the point of no return. The "technical problem" could have been a lot more serious than BF made out. One bike was so badly damaged it was unrideable and BF had to put the couple up in a hotel for the night.

[Aitch]

By coincidence, I happened to be in our bike meeting last wednesday, and two of my friends were also on the same ship during this incident. Out of their group there were about half a dozen bikes that had toppled over and were damaged. I believe BF have already started to get assessors around. However, I haven't, as of today, yet had a reply to my letter.

Aitch 

[Aitch]

Had a reply to my letter of complaint within 7 days. Didn't seem too bad a response! There were 2 tickets for free meals on board in their restaurant for future use. However, as there was 3 in our party, they obviously hadn't checked my booking details (I provided them on the letter) I thought this was a little derisory as one of us would miss out, so I returned them outlining the situation or perhaps suggesting they might like to take the equivalent amount off our next crossing. I haven't heard anything now for 2 weeks.........and counting. In view of their recent adverts and today's report about the Pont Aven, is it time to bring back P & O?

[Benjamin]

On the only occassion I complained in writing (car hire) my complaint was agreed and I was offered vouchers against a future rental. I returned them saying as I hadn't paid in vouchers then I wouldn't expect vouchers in compensation.

I eventually got a cheque but it took some perseverance.

Benjamin