Death in the Village

[Coco]

We received one of those notices this morning that Monsieur Valette has died and it's in loving memory from his wife, sons, daughter, grandchildren, brothers, sisters....... you know how it goes.  He died yesterday - I can't believe how fast this has been sent out!  And there is a service at the village church tomorrow afternoon.  There is also a mass on 4th June.

Can anyone tell me which one will be the burial?  We presume it is the mass rather than the service tomorrow.  We know all the sons quite well but only ever met the dad once, 4 years ago and have waved if we see him in the lane.  Should we go tomorrow?  Would it be rude not to?  On the other hand, would it be a bit intrusive to go?  After all, this notice has been sent out by the undertakers, not the family.  I was thinking of just getting a sympathy card for mum and dropping it in to one of the sons tomorrow morning.  Can anyone advise me of the "right" thing to do when you're right on the edge of his circle of acquaintances?

[Kitty]

Having lost a baby son, I have always thought sympathy cards a bit of a 'cop out'.  We received lots and lots of cards (which you couldn't display because all the flowers were in the way) but only a few hand written letters.  I treasure those letters and remember who wrote them.  They are even more memorable than those who attended the funeral (which was a blur).  I do not know whether your French would be up to writing a letter but perhaps even one in English would be thoughtful?

By the way, the flowers died after a couple of weeks and then I had an empty house (in more ways than one).  Ever since, I have always sent flowers about one month (or more) after a death with a note to the effect that I am still remembering their pain.

[Blanche Neige]

Can anyone tell me which one will be the burial?  We presume it is the mass rather than the service tomorrow.  We know all the sons quite well but only ever met the dad once, 4 years ago and have waved if we see him in the lane.  Should we go tomorrow?  Would it be rude not to?

Sorry this is a late reply.

I think in France a funeral and burial usually takes place within 3 days of the death  and the Mass is a service held later to commerorate the person's life. In our village most people who knew the deceased attend the funeral service.

At this stage I think a card to include a personal note to the family, wouldn't come amiss and maybe a small bunch of flowers for the widow..

[Hoddy]

In these parts at any rate, it's most important that you attend the funeral.  We had similar worries about intruding, but were told in no uncertain terms by our neighbour that we should go even though we didn't really know the man. Our protestations about not having suitable clothes were dismissed. We were told we must go. At the service itself I was thrown by everyone filing past the coffin, and making a donation into a bucket which was placed at the foot of the coffin - not a good time to start scrabbling about in your handbag.

Two days later we were visited by the man's son-in-law who came to thank us for being there. His mother-in-law was very proud that everyone in the village "even the English" had attended and if we ever needed anything we had only to ask. It transformed our relationship with other villagers.

Just my experience.

Hoddy

[Loiseau]

It's absolutely normal to get all the ceremonies over within three days or so. 
In my part of rural France it's also a tradition (and one that I have so far resisted) to go to the funeral home to view the deceased in the open coffin.  Or sometimes to go to the house, if that's where the body is lying, and pay one's respects to the deceased there.  I think you are supposed to take a "gerbe" - flowers of some sort, though I am not sure whether it is a sizeable bunch or one or two sprigs.  Best to ask locally if you feel like doing this.

I've been to a funeral in my village of a close friend.  Mass first in the church, and then everyone walked behind the hearse down the hill to the graveyard for the interment.  Of course, if it had been a cremation then it would have meant piling into cars and driving to the crematorium; there are not too many of these in rural France, so that can be quite a distance away.

During the service, in the church, we all lined up to walk up to the coffin and either touch it, or do a little bow or something. If you do go to the funeral, then take your cue from the others in the congregation.

In the graveyard, we were handed the holy-water sprinkler thing one-by-one to shake at the coffin before it was buried. Again, take your cue from others.

Before we left the church, we were all encouraged to pick up one of the giant floral tributes that had been placed along the altar rail, and to carry it down behind the hearse to the graveyard (mine was so heavy I thought I'd never make it!), where they got placed around the grave.

But if you didn't really know the guy very well, I am sure you needn't feel obliged to go to the funeral, StA. Though as Hoddy says, it would probably cement your relationshp with them if you did...

Angela

EDIT  Sorry, just taken on board the service in village church, and then the mass a week later.  I'd have thought that the first service would be the one associated with the burial.  I think Catholics quite often have a Mass said later (though often some months later), a bit like we might sometimes hold a memorial service.  So I can see that poses a problem, in that the first service might be restricted to family?  Again, can you ask somebody else in the village to explain the protocol about which service to go to?

[Coco]

Unfortunately we only opened our post box on the evening of the 26th so didn't have time to ask anyone in the village.  Fortunately we had two French ladies staying with us that night so I asked at breakfast which ceremony would be which and they confirmed that Saturday's would be the funeral.  They also gave me some appropriate words to put in the card and said that as I didn't really know him that would probably be enough.... however, they were from Paris and not a small rural community.  Ss it happens we had two lots of guests arriving on Saturday afternoon and dinner to prepare for them so I didn' really have time to go but as I came back from the supermarket it was about 10 minutes before the service was due to start and although we only have 170 people living in our village, there must have been AT LEAST 200 cars parked in the Mairie car park, both sides of the lane for a length of about half a kilometre, all courtyards and gardens of houses in the village, the church car park, plus a couple of coaches!!  I went home feeling extremely guilty for not having gone - we obviously wouldn't have been intruding, as they couldn't ALL have known him intimately [:(]

I had also thought that Saturday would probably have been too hectic for them to have me hand deliver a card, so I decided to drop one in today.  I think I'll now go and get some flowers before I do.

[Loiseau]

Oh well, St A, if there were 200 cars and their occupants, I don't see how they could possibly have even *noticed* you weren't there!!

Angela

[Pangur]

Irish catholic funerals are very like what has been described here - there is generally a "removal" the evening before the funeral, where the body is taken to the church (in rural areas especially, it will have been taken from the deceased home, where family members and friends have watched over the body for the last night or two and neighbours come to pay their respects).  The removal service gives those who will be unable to attend the funeral mass the next day a chance to pay their respects.  The funeral mass will be followed by the actual burial - as in Ireland, cremations are relatively uncommon in rural France - it's a catholic thing, apparently.  Then, a month after the death, there is often another "month's mind" mass, which is often the sunday mass dedicated to the deceased. 

Of course this is changing as the country gets more urbanised and less catholic, but it sounds practically the same as the French rural funerals described here.  According to tradition, the burial should take place on the third day after the death (depending on what time the death ocurred at and there are other complications like funerals not normally being on a Sunday).  You have to move very fast to get it all organised, which is hard when you've just lost someone, but normally it seems to go like clockwork, and I suppose it helps take your mind off things.

In my extended family, you always try and make the effort to go to someone's funeral - it's the normal thing to do.  Even if you don't know them well, but know a member of the immediate family, you go and pay your respects and no-one would think of anyone "intruding" unless the family have asked specifically for a private funeral.   In fact my parents have often gone to the funerals of people they have never met, but who were the parents of my friends for example.  A good turnout at a funeral is  often a comfort for the family - it reminds them that the deceased was loved and respected, had a full life with lots of friends and I suppose, that they are not alone in their grief.  I know our family has always been very touched at people making an effort to come to a funeral.

My experience of British funerals was very different - I definitely felt like an intruder when I went to the funeral of my boss, and got the impression that only close friends and family attended funerals normally.  There always seemed to be genuine confusion over whether or not people should go to the funeral, which I found very surprising. 

As Loiseau said, they probably won't have noticed you weren't there but I wouldn't have any qualms about going to a similar funeral in future.

 

[Blanche Neige]

".................there is generally a "removal" the evening before the funeral, where the body is taken to the church (in rural areas especially, it will have been taken from the deceased home, where family members and friends have watched over the body for the last night or two and neighbours come to pay their respects)." 

Pangur; A similar idea happens in rural West Wales so it is not just a Catholic ritual.

"The removal service gives those who will be unable to attend the funeral mass the next day a chance to pay their respects. "

When my sister and mother were buried in Wales the removal service was for close family only which for me would have been enough. The next day the funeral service and burial took place and for this all and everyone from miles around came and paid their respects.

"My experience of British funerals was very different"

I think nowadays people outside the family are welcome at funerals.When a funeral takes place for someone who has been a member of our small country church (in England) many of the congregation will go to the service to support the family.

Back to the original posting;

St. A / Coco I wouldn't worry, as Angela said, with all those people attending I doubt your absence would have been noticed. I am sure the card and bunch of flowers will be appreciated.[:D]

 

 

 

[Christine Animal]

When everyone leaves the church at the end of the ceremony, there is usually a register to sign.  In that way the family know who attended because, as you say, when there are so many people it is impossible to see them all.