What are these people on ?

[Bob T]

There was an interesting bit on Anglia news the other day, the reporter was talking about road deaths of young people in cars. There was another 18 year old who had killed himself at 2:30 in the morning. Everybody said what a nice chap he was and laid flowers. this was the 99th death this year in the region.

The following article was about a biker, who had been filmed from a helicopter, doing 110 mph on an open country road. He had overtaken some cars and was eventually caught, fined and banned for 6 months.

The news was interesting, they portrayed the biker as a criminal, yet he had not harmed anyone. The young car driver, on the other hand, was a sad case and was not to blame for anything despite having 5 youths in the car, the music at full volume and driving through a bend at a speed which caused them to leave the road in the early hours of the morning.

Perhaps we should label all car drivers with the same stupidity as the 99 that have died this year.

[Wibblywobbly]

Thought I may as well throw in my five pennyworth, stranded in Blighty as I am until I can afford to finish the French place.

Re the comment that BMW owners can go as fast as they want...cough..cough..that's news to me!  [:P]

Ok, I own a Fazer 1000, it's been very slightly modded, but probably puts out 140bhp. This is pretty much immaterial to me, as it spends 90% of its time doing no more than 35mph on the daily commute. The only time it is useful is when I am out on a Sunday and want to overtake safely, knowing that whatever happens, I can always call on more horses if I need them to complete the manouevre.

However, and this is where many may disagree with me. If all bikes were restricted to 100bhp, then we would all be on a level playing field. There are too many fools out on a Sunday who have all the gear and no idea, they honestly believe that they can apply the car driving mentality and buy the latest, whizziest bike and that this will instantly make them as good as the bike. It won't and it doesn't. You can buy a Ferrari and the traction control, ABS, etc etc will disguise a useless driver. Buy an R1 and you had better be good at what you do.

By giving all bikes the same maximum bhp, we would see the best riders excel, and manufacturers would have to compete on fuel economy, handling, brakes and comfort. We would actually get a better deal as bikes should become cheaper?

Putting a speed restrictor on a bike is a ridiculous thing to do, and is just another example of why the second sentence of paragraph A cannot happen soon enough!!

Cheers

 Rob G

[powerdesal]

In my yoof we had bikes of 650cc max (Bonneville, Dominator etc), they went quite quickly. Then came multi cylinder 750s then 900s all going even quicker, now we are at 1100cc+, presumably even quickerer. But speed limits have stayed the same.

I genuinely would like to know what the attraction / advantage is of ever bigger motorcycle engines. Greater power certainly, but when is it really necessary. Greater weight (presumably) but this must be disadvantage.

The biggest I tried was a 900 Kawasaki and that had a disconcerting tendency to lift the front wheel and try and get airborne if you even thought about opening the throttle.

I am not anti-motorcycle but really would like to see the point.

[Bob T]

And I suppose that you still drive an 850 Mini or a Morris 1000, no didn't think so. What are your reasons then for wanting a bigger car with a bigger engine? Why should my reasons for wanting a bigger bike be any different?

[powerdesal]

Bob T, I was definitely not trying to be confrontational. I was asking a genuine question. No I dont drive a mini and never had a morris 1000.

My car today has only a fractionally bigger engine than back in the 60s, because now it happens to be a diesel at 2 litre, the petrol equivalent being a 1600, same size engine as in the 60s car I had.

I dont understand your attitude.

As I said, I am not anti motorcycle but am questioning the "apparent" disproportional sizes of modern bike engines, which must, I believe come with an attendent weight penalty.

I could just as easily question the rationale of 5 or 6 litre car engines.

[Bob T]

Sorry Steve, I get very defensive when I think people are trying to have a go at bikers.

The reason that we have an 1100cc BMW each is really quite simple. Smaller bikes can be hard work to ride over large distances, the weight of a bigger bike makes it more stable, and the bigger engine more calable when carrying panniers etc. As our bikes are 99 bhp they are not much more than many Jap 600cc bikes, but they will last longer and have bags more torque (just like your diesel has). Back in '04, Jude (winegum) had an 1100cc Honda Blackbird with 165 bhp and I had a BMW K1200GT with 130 bhp. These were both quite heavy bikes, but it made them ideal touring machines that managed the trip from the Dordogne to Calais in around 6 hours. The bikes we have now are much lighter as they are classed as being more sport than touring.

Jude wanted to change her bike for the BMW K1200S, a sport tourer. She liked the looks and wanted to go back to a 4 cylinder engine. The one thing that changed her mind was the fact that the normal version is 170 bhp and the French market one is 106 bhp. Most people would say that this is enough, but when the bike was restricted, it resulted in flat spots in the power delivery.

I think that if you go back into history, a motorbike was the poor mans mode of transport. Now they are a hobby, a toy if you like. Many people spend thousands of pounds on golf club membership for just one year in the UK, we don't, we just love our bikes and want to ride the best that we can afford.

I am also a car enthusiast, but could not afford a car that has the acceleration that my bike has, instead I drive a 2 liter diesel, but you can bet yuor bottom dollar that it has all the extras that I should want, just like I would expect on a bike.

[Bugsy]

Hi Steve,

Basically it's down to longevity. Higher capacity engines are generally less harder working than smaller units. Britain has gone through a period of Hyper sports bikes but I think it's peaked and now more and more riders are opting for big engines with less bhp but plenty of torque. You'll always get the few, of course, whose 'holy grail' is the fastest thing on the block, but very, very few of those guys have the skill levels to fully utilise that power. A current model of Kawasaki 1000 will actually do 100mph..............................in first gear, wild, but in the wrong hands, crazy.

Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before the 100bhp (106bhp, actual) limit is introduced into the UK and, again, in my view, it's more than enough power for riding on public roads. The current bike test is much harder than the current car test and places restrictions on engine size for newly qualified riders.

It's interesting that no-one mentions high-powered cars and the fact that anyone (who can afford the insurance) and has a full licence can buy 140 to 190 mph cars without any special training or proof of skill levels.

Bikers have their share of nutcases, of course, but I know a large number who have taken one or other of the various advanced training programmes currently available. The current Bike-safe programme, run by the police, is over subscribed at every event. I myself used to teach advanced riding techniques in the UK, with the IAM, and we were always fully booked.

While I'm on my soap-box car drivers fall into certain categories;

Those that like bikes and would love to have one (especially when they are stuck in a queue of traffic and a bike filters down the outside)

Those that don't like bikes and want them banned (usually because they are stuck in a queue of traffic and a bike filters down the outside)

Those that like bikes but family commitments have meant a swap to four wheels.

Those that don't like bikes because they have family commitments and why should anyone else be enjoying themselves.

Drifted off topic a bit and the last bit, for those that don't understand, was said tongue in cheek....

Wave to a Biker tomorrow, it might be your daughter he's got on the back...........................[:D]

[Dick Smith]

I take your point about drivers. I pulled up next to a bike at lights recently - it was beautiful, a sort of swoopy retro 50s design, like an old BMW but not, if you see what I mean. I wound the window down and called out to the rider - whose first reaction was to go into Mr Angry mode because he assumed I was going to abuse him, but he beamed like a Cheshire Cat when I told him how much I liked the look of his bike.

As I've said before, what gets me are the kids on scooters. Riding in T Shirts!

[Sunday Driver]

In the same way as cars, people buy bikes for different reasons.  Some like to cruise leisurely around on low slung chromium plated works of art enjoying the admiring glances.  Others like to fiddle with ancient examples to get them running in some sort of order.  Some like to ride around on BMWs fitted with plastic boxes to hold their pipe and slippers....

But....... most bikers are attracted to the speed.

The top selling motorcycle in the UK in 2006 was the Yamaha R6 - that's a sports bike designed and built for speed, pure and simple.

Accelleration is everything, it's like a drug.  If you haven't experience the sensation of twisting the throttle and feeling the bike pulling itself out of your grip, then it's difficult to understand.  Even my old lardy Pan could leave a Ferrari standing....

Because your bike has this kind of performance, the temptation to use it is often overwhelming.  A nice flowing country road is a welcome technical challenge, balancing all the elements of accelleration, braking and handling.  Normally marginal overtakes become doable with full throttle, etc....

As a biker, I'm at one with my machine.  So why should silly things like speed limitations get in my way?  Limiting my speed would stop me doing those marginal overtakes.  If my ability to accellerate out of trouble was restricted, then I'd have to ride within the road conditions and leave myself in a position to be able to stop in the distance I could see.

Perhaps I might even end up being a safer rider......[;-)]

 

 

[Bob T]

Bugbear, your last line made me laugh!

Dick I hope that you don't see me around in the summer, I oftern ride in shirtsleves - just like the French bike police do.

While riding through Perigueux the other day, a UK registered Jeep moved over in the stationary traffic to let the 4 French registered bikes, with Brit riders on them, pass him. The lights were red anyway, but I made a point of stopping next to their window and saying thanks for letting us pass. You could see the beam on the occupants faces.

It is a shame that bikes have to stop at red lights when we should be exempt.

I have never exceeded the speed limits here in France, but they are all posted in MPH aren't they?

[Dick Smith]

"It is a shame that bikes have to stop at red lights when we should be exempt."

Just get some pedals fitted and you'll be OK.

[Winegum]

SD said: Accelleration is everything, it's like a drug.

I have to agree. I only started biking about six years ago. The two main elements are a sense of freedom and the adrenalin of the acceleration and speed. I started out on an old Honda GB500 (grey import) and graduated to a Suzuki GSX750F then to the Blackbird. The Bird was just amazing and the acceleration seemed phenominal (especially when my everyday transport was a Fiat Punto!). Of course speeding is against the law but it's not necessarily dangerous, and as an inexperienced biker I was very careful where I exceeded the limit. Bob T and I did have one very memorable blast that I'll never forget, down the A1 on a dry, traffic free, Sunday morning, between speed cameras at an obscenely excessive rate, but we didn't endanger anyone else.  You can choose to use speed in appropriate situations, and at least on a bike you're thinking and aware of every single thing that's happening - unlike car drivers on their mobile phones, shouting at the kids in the back, going to sleep, fiddling with the GPS, trying to pick up their lighter off the floor, checking their lipstick, swatting wasps, or having a domestic. Lets face it, most bikers are a whole lot safer with speed than most car drivers.

I think I've gone off the point a bit here - sorry!

Jude

[powerdesal]

I think I fall into categories 1 and 3.

There does seem to be a variation of sub-category though, those who like bikes, have had bikes but now have someone close who points out their lack of immortality by reminding them of a "flying Angel" episode over the front of a car, and the subsequent pain involved with the landing. (I should of course have realised that the car driver always turned right at that junction, without indicating, but I didn't have the chrystal ball optional extra fitted.) [:(]

ps, always wear a helmet, they can crack and be replaced, replacement heads are much more difficult.

[Bugsy]

Hi Winegum,

Well I've been out today, found some brilliant roads and fully tested your acceleration theory......[:)]

The conclusion:..................Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p211/Bugbear2/SummmerFun.jpg[/IMG]

pic from my archives

[socket]

----------- I asume you eventually out accelerated that vidange truck ; not a minute too soon by the look of you     [+o(]

[Bob T]

I caught some of those too. Winegum was behind me so there are no flies on her.

[IMG]http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q259/bikesindordogne/Bikes%20we%20have%20owned/FranceJune115.jpg[/IMG]

[Winegum]

Funny, I was out in the garden today and I only saw a single gnat!

Jude