Post and rail fencing

[Harley]

Not sure if I should put this in here or another spot but........here we go.  We would like to put up a post and rail fence.  Not only around the garden but also a small field.  Has anyone done this and could you give me an idea of cost and best place to purchase the timber.  It would need to be sufficiently strong to contain a pony with the added help of electric fencing.  We are not far from Villedieu Les Poeles(50).

Thanks [:)]

[Cassis]

Try an Agricultural Co-operative (e.g. Point Vert or Districo) in Yellow Pages.  Cheaper than DIY and Garden Centres.

[Harley]

Thanks Cassis.[:)]

[Christine Animal]

Harley, you could try a search for "cloture lisses bois" or "barrière lisses bois",  for example :

http://www.sa-courtois.fr/barrieres_rondins.htm

http://www.chateaumottefouquet.com/fr/cloture/cloture1.html

http://www.castanea.be/fr_bois_chataigner_clotures_post_and_rail_fencing.htm

[La Vette]

On a similar subject, do you need to make a declaration to the mairie if you are putting up one of those green wire and metal post fences.

[candide]

I would also like to know if a declaration de travaux is necessary for a green post and plasticised wire fence if anybody has any idea / experience of this.  In my case it would not border a road, but would simply serve as a separation between my and neighbour's garden.

I have had conflicting advice, so perhaps it is safer to get the DT anyway?  but waiting for permission to come through would obviously delay matters.

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

Standard answer: Ask at the mairie.

However, according to my copy of the Bricomat Guide, in a commune that does not have a POS (plan d'occupation des sols) or a PLU (plan local d'urbanism) then you don't need a declaration.

If your commune does have a plan then you need a declaration. If you're in a protected zone (usually within 500m of a registered monument) then you also need the approval of the architecte des batiments de France.

I'm pretty sure there's a specific permis de cloture, but don't have any real info.

It's worth making sure your boundary is properly defined, either by agreement with your neighbour or by bornage by a geometre.

[candide]

Thanks for your reply.  Will ask again at the Mairie.  It's just that the lady there is a little bit vague sometimes.  When I asked her on the phone about fences, she said no 'declaration' was necessary, but that if the neighbour didn't want a fence, then we should construct the fence 50cm in from the boundary to avoid any possible problems.   I feel this can't be right, as for a 50m length of fence, we would be 'giving away' 25m2 of land to the neighbour.   (A geometre has just been round to do an official 'bornage' so no problem there).

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

I don't have it handy now, but I'm pretty sure that the guide said that a cloture should straddle the boundary if both sides were prepared to share the maintenance (cloture mitoyenne), or be at 'the limit of your property' if you were taking sole responsibility. That sounds rather like the UK practice of putting the posts just inside the boundary and running the feather-edge, or whatever, along the outer face so that (as my Dad used to say) you 'drive the nails home'.

I'm due to acquire a chunk of field as a building plot next week and my plan is to drive a stake in at the inner edge of each borne and join them up with string. That should give me the line I need for erecting a simple chain link fence when I get around to it.

The only reason I know of for putting a fence inside your boundary is to allow access to the outside for maintenance, but I believe (waits for a correction) that your neighbour has to allow access across his land for that, and something like chain link shouldn't be a problem anyway.

There are separate rules for hedging, where you do have to leave a gap between the centre line of the bushes and the boundary to allow for growth and trimming.

After all that, I think the main issue is how you get on with the neighbours. Discussing it with them first is usually a good policy.

[candide]

Well, you would think so, but unfortunately the  character of our neighbour is the reason we really need the fence. 

The boundary is in front of our house, and behind his.  So the view from all of our windows is into his open garage; bins, washing on the line, cars, general storage etc.....  I have no objection to what he keeps in his garage, and it's all reasonably tidy, but I would just like to be able to screen it off with a fence and create a 'garden'.

For some reason he doesn't want a fence.  For 7 years we've tried to appease him, to maintain good neighbourly relations, but now we're at a stage where our plants are dug up when we're not here, bornes have mysteriously disappeared, his plants are planted just inside our boundary... 

So - consulting him about our fence is no longer an option.  That's why I need to be absolutely sure of our rights before putting it up, otherwise no doubt it will come straight down again.   But thanks for showing an interest anyway...

 

[Catalpa]

If he's that much of a charmer, Candide, that may be why the woman at the Mairie suggested 50cms inside the boundary. She's trying to avoid trouble but at the expense of your land! I'm with you - why give him more land... maybe a visit to a Notaire might give a better answer. Ours is very well versed on boundaries, hedges, fences, posts... it's a subject we've discussed with him recently but for different reasons to yours.

[Cassis]

Having secured your territorial rights, should you then decide to block the beggar out of sight properly with a hedge, here are the regs concerning how close you can plant your Leyland Cypresses:

La loi prévoit des distances

de plantations réglementaires

en bordures des propriétaires

et des voies publiques.

Le code civil prévoit que

toutes haies ou végétaux

isolés ne dépassant

pas 2m de hauteur à l'age adulte,

ou taillés, peuvent être

plantés à 0.50m de la

limite du terrain. So up to 2m high, you can plant up to half a metre of your boundary with your neighbour.

Les haies ou végétaux

isolés dépassant 2m

doivent être plantés

à 2m au minimum de cette même

limite. While over 2m high it has to be 2m away.

Avec l'accord écrit de votre

voisin, (fat chance) vous pouvez planter la haie

mitoyenne sur la limite même

des terrains.  L'entretien en incombera alors aux

deux propriétaires.

Si un arbre, même planté

à 2m de la limite , a des branches

dépassant dans la propriété

voisine, son propriétaire est

tenu de l'entretenir, il peut être

aussi contraint de couper ces mêmes

branches.

S'il s'agit d'un arbre fruitier, il

ne pourra ramasser les fruits chez

son voisin, sans permission de celui-ci.

Des dispositions municipales et préfectorales

peuvent aussi réglementer les

plantations en bordure des voies et

emplacements publiques, renseignez

vous , notamment avant de planter

une haie haute.

[candide]

I've already tried planting a privet hedge (70cm inside the boundary in order to be nice) but it's growing so slowly.  It'll be at least 5 years before it provides a screen.  And it's some of the privet plants that disappeared.  So it has got to be a fence.  Another problem is that he has very young grandchildren who do wander in when no-one is supervising them.  I've nothing against children, but we also have unfinished ruined buildings on our land (not to mention a swimming pool)  and I don't want to be responsible for any accidents.  Surely it's quite normal to have a fence between gardens?  Having got the new bornes sorted out I shall pay a visit to the mairie (when they reopen) and just check whether we can erect it 'en limite', ie. with the bornes outside.  And if we do need a declaration, then I'll make one. 

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

[quote user="candide"]

Well, you would think so, but unfortunately the  character of our neighbour is the reason we really need the fence. 

For some reason he doesn't want a fence.  For 7 years we've tried to appease him, to maintain good neighbourly relations, but now we're at a stage where our plants are dug up when we're not here, bornes have mysteriously disappeared, his plants are planted just inside our boundary... 

So - consulting him about our fence is no longer an option.  [/quote]

I'm not French based yet, but my understanding is that moving officially placed bornes is a criminal offence. (No, I can't quote a decret, but I'll look for it.) I'd suggest that you contact the expert geometre who did the bornage and ask him to confirm that the marked boundaries are still correct. Then take lots of photographs that show the bornes in relation to other landmarks, so that any movement can be proved. After erecting the fence do the same thing, lots of photographs.

I don't know a lot about this last bit, but perhaps involving a huissier to witness the condition of the bornes and fence before you depart might help, even if it's only a deterrent against sabotage.

If you are really desperate, then how about erecting your fence at the boundary, then planting a hedge 1 metre in, then weaving razor wire between the bushes! Just make sure your insurance covers you for injuries to uninvited intruders.

[candide]

 

Albert - I think you're right.  I've also read that moving a borne is a criminal offence.  But I can't prove that anyone has moved anything.  All I know is that we found it impossible to find one of the bornes (which had been put in a month or so before in front of the previous owners and our neighbour) while our neighbour looked on.

Anyway, we've just had a new bornage done at our expense.  The new borne is exactly where we calculated that the old one should be, and the geometre didn't manage to find the old borne either.   I don't want to cause a big fuss, or make a song and dance about anything.  It would simply be nice to be able to put up an attractive fence, create a visual boundary and a screen between us and the neighbour - and to do it all legally so that he has no cause for complaint.  I think the idea of photos is a good one though.  Both of the bornes as they are now, and later of the fence.  It's a holiday home for us so part of the problem is that there are often lengthy periods when we're not here, and then perhaps there is a temptation to 'interfere' a bit.