Visit France has changed it's package

[Coco]

Has anyone looked at the Visit France site recently?  I haven't updated my ad for several weeks but today I tried all day to get on and couldn't.  I've just managed it and was surprised to see that according to them my ad had been updated at 3pm today.  I think this answer to this is that they were offline to update the site and consequently everyone has been updated. 

My problem with this is that I have just spent the last two days updating my own website, downloading some photos I have taken of our rooms and resizing, editing them etc, which as anyone knows who has done this, takes a long time!!  I went onto the site to renew my tired (3 years old) looking photos to discover that I can no longer do it myself!!  I have to pay VF £15 to allow them to upload 5 photos for me, and presumably another £15 if I want to change them halfway through my annual subscription period!

I paid for the £99 package last year which enabled me to update both text and photos 24/7 and now I can't!!  Isn't that some kind of breach of contract?  I've emailed them to express my unhappiness but on past record, if it's a complaint they'll take til almost my renewal date to respond!

Has anyone else experienced this?

[Alan]

Yes, i noticed the charges for the photo uploads about 2 months ago i think it was.We had done some re decoration and  i had planned on updating the photos on the site, but after paying i think 117 pounds though there was no way i was going to pay for another upload. They have also redesign the advert layout if you take a look

[Quillan]

We, and I include myself, were having a winge about this site around the same time last year. We were also having a winge about another well known site as well. The thing is, although expensive, that at the end of the year when you do your stats (I assume you make a note of who comes from what source) you may be a bit supprised. For all my personal winging I ws suprised to discover that they had supplied me with 7 bookings resulting in 36 days of business amounting to 1,980€ so that speaks for it's self. The other site costs more to advertise on but that bought in 24 days worth so still worth the investment.

So puting it in to perspective paying £15 to update a photo is nothing compaired to the business it generates.

By the way I don't work for them and I don't have a high opinion of the owners people skills, in fact they get right up my nose but hey business is business and it works for me.

A tip, work out a system if you don't already have one to ensure you know as best you can where the clients came from. You should have a marketing budget, yeh go on laugh because it's a B&B, but the same principles are involved however big or small your business is. You would be suprised how many people use websites that charge 20 or 40 Euro per year and don't know how much business that investment creates. Perhaps if they did they would drop them and use the saved money to advertise with one of the big boys.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Quillan"]

We, and I include myself, were having a winge

about this site around the same time last year. We were also having a

winge about another well known site as well. The thing is, although

expensive, that at the end of the year when you do your stats (I assume

you make a note of who comes from what source) you may be a bit

supprised. For all my personal winging I ws suprised to discover that

they had supplied me with 7 bookings resulting in 36 days of business

amounting to 1,980€ so that speaks for it's self. The other site costs

more to advertise on but that bought in 24 days worth so still worth

the investment.

So puting it in to perspective paying £15 to update a photo is nothing compaired to the business it generates.

By the way I don't work for them and I don't have a high opinion of

the owners people skills, in fact they get right up my nose but hey

business is business and it works for me.

A tip, work out a system if you don't already have one to ensure you

know as best you can where the clients came from. You should have a

marketing budget, yeh go on laugh because it's a B&B, but the same

principles are involved however big or small your business is. You

would be suprised how many people use websites that charge 20 or 40

Euro per year and don't know how much business that investment creates.

Perhaps if they did they would drop them and use the saved money to

advertise with one of the big boys.

[/quote]

We have used Visit France for the 2004, 2005 and now 2006 season to

advertise our gites. It is the only advertiser that carries all three

of our properties. I don't know what has changed, but for 2006 we have

not yet concluded a single booking from this source. Indeed, we have

not had an ENQUIRY from VF since October last, and the period from then

until February is historically our busiest for advance bookings. In

2004/5 they were our biggest source of bookings. Other advertising is

performing well - we are ahead on this time last year by a substaintial

amoun in terms of weeks booked and forecast revenues, so I have to put

it down to VF's own marketing of their site. They have made some

changes to the site that really don't make it user friendly and have

changed they layout in a way that - I think - is unattractive.

I don't mind paying for photos (I don't mind paying for anything that

demonstrates a decent return on expenditure), but at this rate I doubt

I'll be able to justify renewing the subscription. By the way, I have a

feeling that the site periodically rotates properties to the top of the

list if they have not been updated for a while, which is why they

sometimes appear to have been updated for you.

Quillan - you are dead right about budgeting and analysis. Ours may be

a small business, but it is our only source of income (unless I get out

my tutu and start hanging around the docks again), so we monitor and

analyse EVERYTHING. Sometimes, possibly, a bit too deeply....

[Coco]

[quote user="Quillan"]

So puting it in to perspective paying £15 to update a photo is nothing compaired to the business it generates.

By the way I don't work for them and I don't have a high opinion of the owners people skills, in fact they get right up my nose but hey business is business and it works for me.

A tip, work out a system if you don't already have one to ensure you know as best you can where the clients came from. You should have a marketing budget, yeh go on laugh because it's a B&B, but the same principles are involved however big or small your business is. You would be suprised how many people use websites that charge 20 or 40 Euro per year and don't know how much business that investment creates. Perhaps if they did they would drop them and use the saved money to advertise with one of the big boys.

[/quote]

I quite agree with you Chris, in that VF does generate a lot of my business, so I will pay the £15 at renewal time but I will think about it at the moment because I may want to change the photos again in a few weeks.  What I am complaining about is the principle of the matter and the fact that they (VF) without warning, have changed the package that I bought in good faith from them.  I'm not sure that this is legal but as I suspected, it's four days now since I wrote to them and of course no one has had the courtesy to reply to me!!!

I most certainly think it's vital to have a B&B budget and work out, as best you can, where your business is coming from.  In fact, another tip - I couldn't tell whether VF were doing the business for me, so last year, when I renewed, I took the link off to my website, which (a) meant that it was £25 cheaper! and (b) that now all VF enquiries come via their enquiry form so that I can immediately spot how many enquiries I'm getting from them.  It was after I did this that I saw just how much of my business was coming via them - it's still no reason to rip off their own clients though.  The fact that I don't have a link to my website makes it all the more important that I keep the photos on my ad uptodate, which clearly I can no longer do just when I feel like it.  Not only is it the added cost, but they now have to do it for me, so I can't just suddenly change my photos at 2 o'clock on a Sunday morning!!!

On the point of advertising B&B's on the same sites as gites though, I often think there should be a differential in advertising costs.  After all, the cost of a VF ad will be recouped three or four times over with the first firm booking for a gite whereas we B&B owners in general have to get at least 4 nights bookings, which obviously could be the result of just one enquiry, but it may also take FOUR VF bookings just to break even on the costs.  In a way I think this should be reflected at least a little, in the charges made.

[Coco]

As expected, I never got a reply to my complaint about the photo charges.  However, I did get an email this week reminding me that it's time to renew my ad and giving me all the details of how I can do this, where I can send my cheque etc.  This reminded me to update the site again and this time on looking at my ad the photo of the front of my property has disappeared completely and been replaced by a 3 year old photo of the dining room!!!!!!  Now I don't know about other people, but I am always reluctant to book somewhere that doesn't have an external view of the property (wondering if they are trying to hide the fact that they are sat under an electricity pylon or located next door to some hideous factory or the motorway!)

So, on Monday morning I replied to the email asking if I would like to renew, telling them that before I thought about renewal I would like the courtesy of a reply to my previous two emails of complaint and also asked them what has happened to the external view of my property.  Surprise, surprise, Thursday morning and as yet no reply!!!!

I also note that new advertisers are offered up to ten photos for free in the £99 package and thereafter the £15 charge for uploading or changing new photos.  So, if we are renewing, do we get the opportunity to upload ten new photos for free?  After all, we're paying the same as the newcomers, and we've shown customer loyalty.

It's so frustrating, because as Chris says, VF do bring in the custom so I would be loath to leave them but it's a matter of principle with me that they can't change the package halfway through the year when you have paid for one thing and then they decide to start charging for it.  They have also totally changed (for the worse) the look of my ad.  By changing the photo (or perhaps they'll claim they never had it) are they trying to force me into paying for a new upload????   [:@]

[Babnik]

Can you not renew, and then just start again from scratch? 10 new photos free?

[Blanche Neige]

 

Babnik

SNAP !

I had the same thought!

[Coco]

Absolutely!  That's exactly what I intend to do.  I shall not renew, then rejoin in a month or so's time.  But I think everyone is still missing the point.  It's not "how do you get around this rip-off system?"  More to the point, how do you stand up to them and make them change it, when it clearly is a rip-off?  To me it just wreaks of greed.  They are already one of the more expensive sites and they are just trying to find ways of making yet more money out of their customers.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

[Quillan]

I actually phoned them last year when I had a problem. I did get it sorted out but the feeling I got was that I was very lucky to be able to give them money and that they allowed me to advertise on their site. To be honest I think it's two or three men in a shed with a dog. Bit like that current ad on the telly where one guy is receptionist, toilet cleaner and director.

[Coco]

I think you're right there Chris!  I think there are only about 3 or 4 of them trying to make a lot of money fast!

I've sent them a fourth email today pointing out that in my region alone they have lost 17% of their advertisers since April and that if they are losing them at the same rate across the board they could be in trouble.  Still no response of course.

 

[Coco]

I got yet another email reminder today that my subscription will need renewing in two weeks time.  Still no email in response to my 4 to them though!!!  I also happened to get a 4 night booking in my family suite at 90 euros a night through VF today, so as I said, I will have to bite the bullet and renew but I couldn't do so without making my point to them.  So I phoned them today.

First of all I got the response I expected - that some emails do get lost or overlooked because of the high number they receive.  I said I appreciated this but didn't believe that all 4 could have got lost.

When I complained about the new policy of charging for photos the lady then launched into a great monologue on how many photos are of a poor quality so they have to spend time improving them and it takes a lot of time to do and they need to keep their site of a good standard so "sadly" they have had to introduce a charge and it is definitely not just a money-making scheme.  Did I say that?  My first reaction was, "the lady doth protest too much"!!!  Anyway, I told her that I could quite understand the need to charge in future but that I was not happy about them changing their policy halfway through a contract with no warning.  She told me that there was "probably" something put in the update area just before they changed their policy, or if there hadn't been there "should have been".  She was a little lost for words when I turned this heady workload line back on her and that theirs wasn't the only site that busy B&Bers advertise on and that between updating those sites and running the actual business we don't have time to surf these sites looking to see if they may be planning any changes in the future.

Anyway, the upshot of it all was that she refuses to let me have a new set of ten photos at time of update (first week of April) even after I pointed out that NEW members would be given this option.  However, if I sent her some photos today she would add them to my entry free of charge.  So I "sort of" got there in the end, the trouble is, I will still need to update a lot of these photos in a couple of months when the redecorating is finished and when the flower boxes are in bloom.  So it looks like a £25 charge for changing or adding 5-10 photos [:@]  I'm still not happy and I think there is an element of sharp practice in here somewhere but ultimately I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face.  They are a pretty good source of bookings, as much as I hate to admit it.

[mascamps.com]

You know, I almost get the feeling that VF make these changes in charging structure just to create the publicity that you guys create for them each year.

I for one signed up for the first time after last year's set of tirades against them (on the assumption that they were bound to get their act together again) so perhaps that's a valid signing up strategy for them.

 

Arnold