What preparations needed for the coming winter ?

[les Favets]

Had a new pool installed earlier this year, with winter coming up, what preparations should I be viewing for the big freeze her in the Auvergne ?   I have a " Double bubble " pool and hopefully " Poolguy " will recognise this and give me ( no doubt others ) some advanced thoughts.  ie; Do I need to put  special chemical to stop the water freezing up ? Someone mentioned that there are Freezer blocks that are placed around the inside of the pool that does the trick. I just don't know.  Oh yes the interior is a liner.

Regards Les

[Eslier]

How depressing to be thinking of shutting the pool down for winter when it's still August !

Oh well then, this is what I do . . .

First I give the pool a really good final clean (pumping the "prise ballet" to waste. Then I empty about one third of the water pumping to waste so that the water level is a good 500mm below the skimmers. Next I empty a 5 litre container of Everblue Hivernage fluid into the remaining water. A run of special interlocking weighted floats is then put diagonally across the length of the pool and various plastic bungs etc. are placed in the skimmer downpipes. Then, to complete that stage of the job, the winter cover is put in place.

Next it's over to the heat pump which needs to be drained and cleaned off carefully on the vent side. The inlet and outlet pipes then need to be replaced to ensure no rodents decide to make the pipes their winter home. Finally, the diatemous earth filter is stripped down and thoroughly hosed out and cleaned, replaced and all the stopcocks closed.

All very sad !

During the winter, I keep an eye on the water level in case any needs pumping out. You would be surprised how much the level can rise !

The whole system needs starting up again before the end of March in order to catch it before it all goes too green !

Well there you are - that's my story but I expect Andrew will be able to give better advice specific to your pool. Hopefully he won't tell me I'm doing it wrong !

[les Favets]

[quote]How depressing to be thinking of shutting the pool down for winter when it's still August !Oh well then, this is what I do . . .First I give the pool a really good final clean (pumping the "prise bal...[/quote]

I know !! isn't it sad ? but here in the Massif Central we must prepared sometimes before other regions for winter days arriving early and If I have the information in advance one could say " A stich in time- saves nine "   Thank you for taking the time to enlighten me, what has to be done.  Let us see what Andres says also

Regards Les

[Poolguy]

Yes there are a number of issues to discuss here, so thanks for raising the subject.

 

The First issue is timing, when to winterize?

 

Next is sanitation, or will it turn nasty?

 

Next Temperature, and what happens if it freezes?

 

And last but most important, Security.

 

Lets start with WHEN. This is an imprecise number, but generally speaking the right time to commence winterizing has to do with the water temperature. When its gets below 10 degrees then its not possible for algae to live so that would seem to be a good time to start. So naturally this will be earlier in the center of the country than on the coast.

 

Then look at SANATISATION. You’ll need to clean the pool thoroughly, get all of the algae, debris, stains and mould away from the pool and surrounds. Choc the pool well and run the pump for 5-6 hours to ensure that it is circulated very well. Introduce anti-algae, which is suitable for this purpose sometimes called ‘Hivernage’. But as long as it is compatible with high chlorine levels that should be OK. This is different for those who have an Automatic pool controller however as no anti-algae is needed. The new generation of which features a temperature sensor, which will run the system to prevent freezing.

 

Next prepare for FREEZING. You don’t need to drain the pool just get the water out of the pipes and below the plastic skimmer boxes. If you do drain the pool you’ll risk damage to liner or structure potentially and certainly it is unnecessary. If its easy to do, disconnect the pump and drain it, storing it away from frost and low temperatures. Place bungs in the return jet holes to keep water in the pool. If you have a Crystal pool, undo the clips at the base of the ladder and remove the ladder from the pool but only after removing the filters (which should be stored clean), Store apparatus inside away from frost and low temperatures.

 

Lastly SECURITY. If you have a security cover or abri, put it in place and lock securely. If you have a winter cover, with security fence, then put these in place and ensure that the gate is locked securely. If you use a perimeter alarm clear any debris or growing thing away which might interfere with the alarm in bad weather and put the winter cover on as before. If your only conforming security is an immersion alarm then you are obliged to leave your cover off. If you have your cover on then your alarm will not work and you are not conforming. If you remove your alarm then you are not conforming. Do not presume that because it is not the season for swimming that you need not conform, as this is not the case. You are obliged to conform with the requirement of operate a security devise every day of the year. Hence if your pool freezes and your alarm malfunctions … you have a problem as you are not conforming. Its not by any means sure that the Government will not control the compliance with this law to each Pool owner in France. We understand from official sources that each region is employing an officer whose responsibility will be to check for compliance. Naturally, they have a record of everyone with a pool. I would imagine that each person in the region will be systematically checked right throughout the year. It is the obligation of the pool owner to comply and there is no way out of the fine once you have been visited by the control officer. I have heard that these measures are in response to the reported 50% of pool owners in France who have yet to install compliant security devices and will therefore be non compliant by Jan 1, 2006.

 

Good luck let me know if anyone need more help.

 

Andrew

[les Favets]

[quote]Yes there are a number of issues to discuss here, so thanks for raising the subject.

" Don't need to drain the pool"  Can I assume that by doing what you say under this paragraph, the water will not freeze ? Or if it does it will not damage the liner etc?  Or do I need to add some chemicals to stop it from freezing.  I do have a Crystal Pool and a winter cover on its way.

Other point:  I have an aqualarm system.  So come the winter. How do I overcome the legal side of the security requirements, if as you say, It will not work

Regards Les Favets

[Poolguy]

Hi again

Le Favets you have raised some interesting situations which certainly should be discussed.

First is the immersion alarm in winter question.

If your sole security is an immersion alarm you may not: take it out of the water, turn it off, put a winter cover over the pool or drop the level of water, if you want to be compliant as in all of these cases your alarm will not work.

You must have security in place and operation 24 hours every day, 365 days of every year.

If your water then freezes along with the alarm, then you are not compliant in my opinion as the alarm will not work. I guess you must then either purchase a Compliant security winter cover or run your pump 24 hours every day during winter to prevent freezing (not confident about that one).

In the case of winterising your pool where there is no alarm. If you follow the instructions in my long post above you should be OK. There is no need to worry about the water freezing from the point of view of the liner as it should not do any damage. Our experience with many pools over many years has shown that these liners do not suffer from freezing water.

Certainly, I would never advocate using any sort of antifreeze solution in a swimming pool as it is toxic. Hence, come summer you would need to empty the entire pool, clean the liner, sanitise it and refill with fresh water. More trouble than it is worth I think.

I hope that I have answered your questions.

Andrew

 

[les Favets]

[quote]Hi again Le Favets you have raised some interesting situations which certainly should be discussed. First is the immersion alarm in winter question. If your sole security is an immersion alarm you ...[/quote]

Hi again!!!  Woe is me,  it looks like I have been sold a pig in a poke.  I initially had a security cover from the installers but when the first one arrived it was split so no security.  When the replacement arrived it was too big for the area necessary to fit.  So they knocked down a new wall they had built only to discover that the security cover was still too big for the area available that is when I accepted an alternative of a security alarm.  Back to the drawing boards looks like I will have to now add fencing.

Regards Les Favets

[Poolguy]

Hi

any update on the problems with winterisation.

You were having trouble as I recall.

 

Andrew

[Nickd]

Just a quick query from a first-time winteriser..

Reading Hendo's v. informative info on this process, I need to know what is actually meant by ".. just get the water out of the pipes and below the plastic skimmer boxes." I have tubes that hold the skimmer filters within the ladder structure (a Crystal pool) - how far below the top of these tubes should the water level be drained to? By skimmer boxes, do you mean the baskets that sit on the top?

Any guidance appreciated - sorry if this is all a bit obvious, but I do want to get it right!

Nick

 

[Poolguy]

NIc

In your case with a Chrystal pool its really easy.

Just undo the clamps at the bottom of the ladder (both sides) and lift the whole ladder and skimmers out of the water. Then you can drain the water from the pump and even take it off if its likely to get frozen. Make sure that you clean the filters before they get packed away.

Don't worry about circulation for the rest of the pool as long as the water temp is below 10 you'll have no algae problems as long as you follow the steps that i outlined above about choc-ing and cleaning. Then Cover up and ... see you in the spring.

If you need more specifi help, then post again or email me.

Andrew

[les Favets]

[quote]Hi any update on the problems with winterisation. You were having trouble as I recall. Andrew[/quote]

Hi Poolguy,  It's me again!!! Temp now 10 degs and ready to put the pool to bed for the winter.  We have your information above  "how to set about preparing the pool etc.,"  to refer to but need some more guidance:

1) The Manufacturers liner warranty specifies the following exclusions (a) Draining pool below normal winterising levels ( Crystal pools ) in use:  What level is classified as ( Winter level )?

(b) or improper use of chemicals :  We have " CHLORE ACTION PROLONGE " in 200 grm galets or blocks.  How many should we use under your recommendation ( CHOC pool well ) ?   We also have ; ( ANTI AGUES CLARIFIANT ) Anti -Algae solution  " Non mussant "  3 ltr can.  How much do we put in under your recommendation  : ( Introduce Anti- algae )?

Manufacturers don't seem to recommend on their instructions; How much to use.

Is there any need to put any item into the water that would help when the freeze up arrives? ie I have seen somewhere that someone put a rubber lilo in the water !!!!!

Hope you are able to come back soon

Regards Les Favets

 

[Poolguy]

OK Relative calm has once more descended over the office and hence matters of advice and recommendation may be proffered with due consideration.

here we go

Winterising – the Book (movie in preparation and will follow staring Hugh Grant as Poolguy- a challenging role requiring a punitive tax on acting ability and much rubbing of chin in thoughtful repose).

Waterlevel – do nothing. Water does not need to be adjusted for the sake of winter treatment in a Chrystal pool under normal circumstances. However, In the case where the water has not been changed for several years, I would recommend that, at some time during the winter you change at least 50 % of your water. This is necessary to dilute the build up of Cyanuric acid (stabiliser). This is a substance which is combined within the gallets (tabs) used in manual dosing. Its purpose is the hold the chlorine in the pool long enough to do its job. During the course of a few days or a week (depending on bather load) the chlorine will have been spent, but the Cyanuric acid remains and builds up. The effect of too much Cyanuric acid in the pool means that you will begin to grow algae even though the chlorine count might quite high. The reason is that the excess of Cyanuric acid is binding the chlorine so that it cannot do its job. The only remedy is the dilute the levels by changing water. This is a very costly treatment for a simple problem but its absolutely essential if your pool is dosed manually. For those of you with automatic pool controllers which use liquid chlorine, there is no Cyanuric used and therefore no dilution necessary for that situation.

As for the water level in a convential pool, that could be dropped below the skimmers if you so choose but so long as the skimmers are plugged its not a problem if you don’t.

Freezing will not normal damage your pool and therefore I recommend that you do no put any water treatment in to prevent it. Nor is it necessary to put anything more than your normal winter cover over it to excluded leaves and debris. ( unless of course you have chosen an alarm as your security device- see other threads)

Sanitisation and Anti Algae.

Choc the pool. This means that you should raise the chlorine levels to a high point say 10 ppm. You can do this with Chlor Choc or simply use Eau de Javel Concentrate which you can buy at your local supermarket for less than 1 euro. It comes in three little plastic satchels at 9.6 % active, and the three of those are enough to get most pools into Choc. Use a 50% dilute solution to clean your skimmers and other fittings around the pool, letting it settle without water movement for about 30 minutes. That will really clean all of those places and bleach the plastic. Then pour the rest into the pool at a 20 % dilution taking care not to get any concentrate on the liner.

Clean the ring around the liner. I recommend JEP Wash Aquaclean as it’s a bio degradable product and will not add to the TDS (Total dissolved solids) but is still very effective against most liner stains.

Using a scrubbing brush on a long handle, scrub the margelles with the pool water, at this time its super chlorinated and therefore good sanitisation media. Take care not to let the water you are using run back into the pool.

Antialgae. There are many winterising treatments on the market, I am not in favour of most of them as they add to to TDS and cause terrible problems in chemical balance later on. Particularly those containing copper (read the contents carefully). Benzene ammoniate , not great also. If the product you have purchased containes any of these elements then throw it away, as it will cause you far greater problems in the future than it costs to get another now. My personal preference is a Bio Anti-Algae which is not a poison but and enzyme which eats algae. Its not as straight forward as others, but worth the effort in my opinion. First you must let the chlorine levels go back to normal (1-2 ppm). Then take two satchels and dissolve in a bucket of warm water and introduce to the pool. This will be enough to keep any hardy algae who are not discouraged by cold water that this pool is not a place for them. Hence, using this regime, when you open your pool again in Spring, the water should not have suffered an increase in the TDS saturation. Therefor you can look forward to a rapid and relative work free re-commission of your pool.

If there are other areas where you need help, just post and I’ll do my best to get back. Good luck. Bon travaille

Andrew

[Mikejac]

Hi Poolguy

I have been reading your posts with interest, as I am shortly moving into a house which has a pool and I am a complete novice. Are there any special considerations for a Desjoyaux pool with salt filtration system?

[Poolguy]

Mikejac

Your question is very general.

Desjoyeux are a particualr type of pool with a pump, and bag type filter system adjacent to the pool. You say that it has a salinator as well.

So long as the cells are in good order and the bag filter is well as well then you should have no trouble. However there are always issues with new pools.

If you are wondersing about winterising, then there is no special extra issues with Desjoyeux. So long as you have security system on the pool and a winter cover then you will be in good shape.

If there are any special questions you have then by all means PM me and I'll do my best.

Andrew

[les Favets]

[quote]OK Relative calm has once more descended over the office and hence matters of advice and recommendation may be proffered with due consideration.here we goWinterising – the Book (movie in preparation a...[/quote]

Hi!!! Yes it is I ( Les Favets )  Just to let you know:  Ladders been taken out - Pump taken off and now in a dry warm place - Pipes all drained out - Cover eventually put on.  Every thing put to bed for the winter.  Next day ; minus 10 and today: snowing.   Will be in touch in the spring no doubt!!  In the mean time a big THANK YOU  A Merry Christmas  and Healthy New Year

Les Favets

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