SWG pool - high chlorine levels

[halfblind]

Question for those experts with more knowledge than me regarding salt water chlorine generators.

A pool I have been asked to winterise has an Astral SWG system which seems to work OK, but having visited the pool recently the chlorine levels are very high and the smell of chlorine is very strong around the pool area. Also the vinyl liner has been adversely affected and has wrinkles all over the bottom.

Question is it it possible that the SWG just keeps generating chlorine to achieve such ridiculously high levels ?

[Théière]

It would be a little more helpful to know what the levels are as a high chlorine level doesn't need to give rise to a strong smell unless it's reacting with something.  The SWG should have a probe attached to the pipework to monitor the chlorine level and shut off the unit when the set point is reached.

Wrinkling of the liner is normally due to pH changes outside of the quite wide normal ranges and as SWG cause a rise in pH it could happen.

[halfblind]

Thanks teapot. I cant tell the actual chlorine levels as I only use "drops in a tube" type tester, usually good enough for me. The colour of the chlorine side is nearly brown not yellow indicating to me very high chlorine. The pH looks OK and the pH doser reflects the reading ( 6,8)

[Théière]

Ok, try diluting the pool water with the same amount of tap water, take the sample from that and re test but double the result.  You can dilute further if required and multiply the result by the dilution factor.  Oto tests only really show total chlorine and not free chlorine but you'll get some idea of the level.  Any other levels, pH etc would be important too for the liners sake.

[halfblind]

OK teapot, understand how to get a more accurate reading of chlorine and the pH as stated is fine at 6,8.

The real question still remains will the SWG keep generating chlorine. The probes are in place in the system and the amperage reading ( the only one on the SWG control box) is at 4 when the instructions state for chlorine generation it should be set at 7

It functioned correctly during the summer period apparently according to the owner.

[Théière]

Is that your pH reading or just from the box as probes do go out of calibration which is why before I commence any work I carry out a full water test.

I would then surmise that it's water under the liner causing the wrinkles, Had a lot of rain your way?

Need to know a salt level as the power maybe struggling at 4 because of a lack of salt and that can cause failure of the power supply unit.  The probe for chlorine should monitor the REDOX potential and when it hits the setting (around 750Mv) it should make the chlorinator shut off. Probes don't last forever and may need cleaning in dilute acid or replacing, when were they last replaced?

[halfblind]

The pH reading is both from my test kit and the probe. The probe was calibrated by myself in July using pH7 fluid.

The crinkles in the liner are definitely not caused by water underneath the liner and I am sure are caused by high chlorine levels.

The salt level was fine when tested in the summer (can't remember the level) and the pool has not had a lot of use since then.

I should say that the pool installation and design is frankly awful. Its 10x5m with a flat bottom and just one skimmer and a bottom drain. The two return jets are fed by one 50mm pipe run so not great circulation. The liner fits poorly and has several creases in it running down the sides. When I was asked to open up the pool last July for the non resident owners I met the neighbour who gave me the lowdown on the pool installer who charged the client an exhorbitant price for what they got and all work was carried out at night ! (Black?)

The liner then looked as though a large amount of javel had been poured into the pool from one end as the liner was wrinkled up more on the steps than elsewhere. Since then the timer timings that I set were changed, the water fell below the skimmer and the pump ran dry for a time and the chlorine level has shot up. I think there could be a history that points to a disgruntled individual gaining access to the pool and pump room (its not secure), and its in an isolated setting.

I will be telling the client that I cannot look after it next season and they should find someone else. I cant be doing with the hassle and have better things to do with my time.

[Théière]

Ok understood, the combination of high chlorine and low pH, 6.8 is too low if the chlorine is excesively high could cause wrinkles, what colour is the liner as excesive chlorine will bleach out the colour, any evidence of this?

I have been sent a photo from a proud new pool owner, same size pool as this one, single skimmer and no bottom drain, what could I say? They went on to recommend this pool builder to someone else so I quietly stepped in, no idea if they took any notice.

I know what you mean, this year I have walked away from a pool which requires work to improve it but I got the impression the owner wasn't listening so I am affraid I won't be going back to that one.  Much better use of time on other projects.

[halfblind]

The liner was light blue but is now bleached to near white !

Am in Paris for a few days break, so don't want to think of this right now !:-)

[Jonzjob]

Sorry to come in late to this discussion. Just found it.

Probably unwelcomed advice too, but if you are going to look after other peoples pools Halfblind, would it not be an idea to get a half decient pool water tester?

I only look after my own pool, but I have a LaMotte Clolor Q Pro7 tester shown here

http://www.lamotte.com/en/pool-spa/digital-testing/colorq/2057.html  .

The tablet version because it's more accurate than the drops that change  density with temprature. More expensive than yout little tube you chuck drops in and do an exact approximation with? But wouldn't it be worth it with customers health at stake?

We had our liner changed last June because the old one was leaking. Showing lots of wrinkles and after I had made a hole in one corner and pumped it out a few times and got peed off with trying to keep up with the changes to the water chemistry, we bit the bullet and got an armoured jobbie fotted. The rest of the summer was a treat with no water chemistry problems at all!

[halfblind]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]Sorry to come in late to this discussion. Just found it.

Probably unwelcomed advice too, but if you are going to look after other peoples pools Halfblind, would it not be an idea to get a half decient pool water tester?

I only look after my own pool, but I have a LaMotte Clolor Q Pro7 tester shown here

http://www.lamotte.com/en/pool-spa/digital-testing/colorq/2057.html  .

The tablet version because it's more accurate than the drops that change  density with temprature. More expensive than yout little tube you chuck drops in and do an exact approximation with? But wouldn't it be worth it with customers health at stake?

We had our liner changed last June because the old one was leaking. Showing lots of wrinkles and after I had made a hole in one corner and pumped it out a few times and got peed off with trying to keep up with the changes to the water chemistry, we bit the bullet and got an armoured jobbie fotted. The rest of the summer was a treat with no water chemistry problems at all!

[/quote]

I am not looking after other peoples pools, was asked at last minute to open this pool.

I have looked after my own 2 pools for over 15yrs using just the simple pool testing for total chlorine and pH balance with no problems. A fancy tester is only going to tell you when you have dropped the ball and forgotten to carry out checks on a regular basis. I dont think your water chemistry problems were affected by a change of liner, just inattention in previous periods.

[Théière]

[quote user="halfblind"]

I have looked after my own 2 pools for over 15yrs using just the simple pool testing for total chlorine and pH balance with no problems. A fancy tester is only going to tell you when you have dropped the ball and forgotten to carry out checks on a regular basis. I dont think your water chemistry problems were affected by a change of liner, just inattention in previous periods.

[/quote]

Not strictly true about dropping the ball and regular checks. As you can only check two things you may exist in blissful ignorance of a problem. (reminds me of my old Mk1 Ford escort, not even a temperature gauge! so when it seized on the M4 through overheating I wasn't surprised)

One of my customers contacted me with their readings which showed an increase in combined chloramines, baring in mind this a is a large rental setup, if left unchecked this small issue would have become a big problem within days and leaves the rental site owners in a red faced dilemma, to close off the pool and possibly have to pay compensation to guests but we saw the issue develop and swiftly sorted it without further issue.

You can carry on for years and years because if the basics are in place and it's a low batherload pool they are easy to look after.  I make a living from visiting people with little or no test gear, sadly that income is slowly reducing because I have sold so many reasonable testers they just don't call me any more but sort out their problems themselves  when they do arise.

Why some are able to get by without better testing can often be luck of the draw where you live.  On the forums many non pool pro's speak of their pools and imagine that all the others in france have the same water and area conditions. Down in the Dordogne the water varies terrifically within an hours journey of two pools, these different situations call for different solutions.  Having a vinyl lined pool also makes the work of looking after the pool considerably easier but the liners do age, and do wrinkle and loose flexibility with age and an on going leak can cause the work of looking after a pool to change considerably if the top up water isn't within good range of the water in the pool.

I read you've chosen to walk away from this problem pool, probably a good decision, I take on problem pools and can sort them out but it depends on the owner and if they have the will or budget to put problems right.  Having witnessed the repairs from some of the major companies, frequently franchised and the costs to the customer, I just cannot believe the standard of some of the work.  One in the Charente Maritime required the liner re fitting (because they built the pool so badly in the first place) Hand on heart I could not have left that pool in the condition Magiline called finished, wrinkles everywhere, personal pride would have meant me staying to straighten it out properly even if it meant a day extra unpaid but in this case they grabbed their fee and left. Yet the owners still return to the shop for advice and products because they are a big business with a shop premiss?  Answers on a post card please, you just can't help them all.

[Jonzjob]

It could have been my inattention of course, but not after I had got the chlor free, chlor total, PH, TA, cyanuric acid and calcium hardness all where they should be. It must have been complete coincidence that everything had cleared after the new liner was fitted. And it stayed that way too.

When I took the old liner out there was enough not very nice 'water' behind it to kill an elephant never mind unbalance a pool when it was leaking back into the pool water..

I think that for 'fancy' it could read 'accurate' me-thinks? [blink] The automatic chlor/PH tester does the most of the testing, every 3 minutes the pump is running to be precise, and I test that all is well at least once a week on top of that and always have done. It's the only way to not drop anything and you should think before accusing anyone perhaps?

Hi TP, our replies crossed..

[Théière]

Hi John, yes I agree with you, you have invested in a chemical dosing unit which does indeed take care of the main issue of chemical additions post rain fall etc which manual dosing simply doesn't unless the owner is really on top of the pool daily.  I appreciate everyone would like super low cost pool ownership and I have always striven to produce this and indeed have with the energy saving easily covering the costs of improvement and testers after a season or two.

I would also say that starting with a clean water fill will carry the pool for a couple of seasons with exceptionally easy maintenance in a lot of cases especially where low batherload is normal.