Long Term Incapacity Benefit and form E121

[Whatamess]

[:)]  First of all I would like to thank those people who took the trouble to try to offer practical, helpful advice in response to my original posting.  I would also like to thank those people who responded to our situation with compassion and understanding.   Sunday Driver, you are the voice of logic and common sense.  Mr Cat and Ali, I do hope the review goes well for you and that you both continue to enjoy life in France despite your not inconsiderable health issues.

[:(]I have been stunned and dismayed at the bitter tenor of some of the responses to my original posting.

My integrity as a Solicitor has been called into question, as has the honesty, morality and character of myself and my husband.

When I was first awarded Incapacity Benefit I began making applications for part-time work.  I wanted to work part-time, rather than claim any benefit. In eight months I applied for over 20 part-time vacancies but was unable to secure a position.  After eight months on Incapacity Benefit I was diagnosed with cancer.  I underwent major surgery to remove half of my tongue and lymph nodes on the left hand side of my neck.  This left me even more incapacitated than before, with a speech impediment and nerve damage to my left shoulder, causing pain, weakness and instability.  Nevertheless, four months after diagnosis I took on a full-time job, because I felt that I needed to work.  Within four months it became patently clear that I was unfit to work and I reluctantly went back on Incapacity Benefit.  I have since had a trapeziectomy on my right thumb (to match the one I had in 2003 on my left hand) for arthritis.  In addition, I have two discs missing in my lower back and my neurosurgeon says that whilst I can still walk he will leave well alone, as if he operates I would be in a wheelchair for six months and may end up worse off than I am now.

In my husband's case, he did not choose medical retirement, it was thrust upon him, there was no question of "soldiering on" as you put it.  He was medically retired from a job that he loved, following an injury sustained as a result of a selfless act protecting and serving the public.  He has since been deemed unemployable - a direct consequence of this injury.  He has also fractured two vertebrae in his neck and two in his lower back and has three compressed discs.  He has had seven separate operations on his knees and suffers from sciatica.  We get through painkillers like Smarties in our house.  We do not look for sympathy, but a little compassion goes a long way and we do not deserve the roasting we have received on this forum.

You do not know our circumstances Bigears, nor do you wish to, and yet it seems you consider yourself sufficiently informed to quite happily cast aspersions on our character and to all intents and purposes brand us as benefit cheats.

We do not have to justify our claim for Incapacity Benefit, since that is the role of the medical examiners acting on behalf of the Department of Work and Pensions.

We do not and never have claimed that we shall be incapacitated for life and as for it being "a nice feeling not to have to worry", I believe that that was precisely the reason for my original posting - that I am worried.

Tony F, if it were that simple to practice as a Solicitor freelance for one day a week, don't you think I would have taken that route?  After four years at University and two years as a trainee, it is not something that I gave up lightly.

In order to practice as a Solicitor I would have to obtain Professional Indemnity Insurance cover, which is an extremely expensive commodity, even for a thriving law firm.  I would also have to re-register with the Law Society and pay for a practicing certificate at a cost of around £1,000 pa.  I would then have to pay for as many courses as it took to get "up to speed" with current legal practice at a cost of around £500.00 each half day course.  I would also have to attend further Continuing Professional Development courses for around 16 hours per year, at my own cost, to be permitted to practice.  Then of course I would have to find clients, buy computer programmes designed for my particular field of practice, hire an accountant and then, hopefully, get paid (if I win the case).  With all of those expenses no law firm would want to hire a qualified Solicitor for one day a week - the figures simply do not stack up.

Getting back to Incapacity Benefit, the "you're either too sick to work or you're not, that's the way the benefit is paid in the UK" statement is erroneous and misleading.  The fact is that under the Permitted Work rules pertaining to Incapacity Benefit, a claimant can work for up to sixteen hours per week and earn up to £88.50 per week without this affecting their entitlement to claim Incapacity Benefit.  Naturally, the benefits agency have to be advised that the claimant is doing the work.

I telephoned the Department of Work and Pensions today to obtain some clarification on this matter.  I explained to the advisor that we were in receipt of Incapacity Benefit and that we had bought a property in France.  I explained that we intended to engage an architect to draw up plans and obtain any necessary consents and then engage a builder to carry out the renovations to provide a home for us.  I was advised that this did not constitute work on our part. 

I further explained that our property includes a number of outbuildings and that we had been considering the idea of engaging an architect to draw up plans and obtain any necessary permissions and then engage a building firm to renovate the buildings which we may then let out as holiday lets.  I was advised that having the outbuildings renovated does not constitute work on our part.  Therefore having our property renovated whilst being in receipt of Incapacity Benefit is not "working on the black".  Having an idea is not work, and if we have the outbuildings renovated we would not have a business, we would have renovated outbuildings.  If, however, we decided to let them out as holiday accommodation, then, I was told, we would be self-employed, running a business and that is when we would be deemed to be working.  This is not my interpretation of the rules but that of the Department of Work and Pensions.

We do not have a business plan, nor will we be borrowing any money for any renovations that we have carried out on our property, and if having an idea, dream or ambition precluded people from claiming Incapacity Benefit then no-one would be permitted to claim it.  If we do decide, in the future, to run gites or a small caravan site then there is no question but that we would cease to claim Incapacity Benefit but, until such time, we do not believe that we would be doing anything wrong morally, legally or in any other way.  Our consciences are clear.  In the meantime if DWP medical examiners declare that we are no longer entitled to claim Incapacity Benefit, then so be it.

Why do we think we may be able to run a business in France?  Because we can afford to buy a substantial property with land in a nice area  and have it renovated and have the potential for holiday letting for part of the year.  In the UK property prices in decent holiday areas mean that there is no way on earth (short of a lottery win) that we would be able to afford a similar project.  We do not anticipate such a business operating 52 weeks of the year - more like 20 - 25 weeks of the year and we would employ others to do what we are unable to do (ie clean and change sheets once a week or once a fortnight).  We can only give it our best shot.

Tony F, we are no strangers to the ravages of cancer, having lost several precious family members to it - we wish you nothing but good health and a contented, if forced, retirement.

 

 

[5-element]

Whatamess - I have followed this thread with great interest, and strongly deplore that you were put in a position where you felt you had to justify and explain yourself. I was outraged by the ignorant and vitriolic assumptions by some posters concerning people on IB.

As you detailed your circumstances, now I can imagine that Bigears's head will just hang in shame for a very long time, and I hope that the occasionally held belief that people on IB are scroungers and profiteers, will have been knocked. There may well be IB that are given to people who are just milking the system, but I personally don't know any. However, my own husband is on long-term IB, and I would not wish on anyone to go through the mental suffering, anguish, physical pain, discomfort, and  indignities - apart from much shortened life expectancy, and of course, inability to continue with work that he loved - that justify his entitlement to IB.

Thank you for revealing your personal circumstances (although you should not have to!) as they might dispel some of those awful myths about crooked IB beneficiaries.

Best of luck in your projects.