Top Up after Retirement age

[Shane]

Just been asked by a friend who is approaching 60 and will draw her UK pension (been resident in France for 15 years) whether or not she will still require a top up/mutuelle for her health cover as then she will have a E121 she thinks and be covered 100%. She runs her own gite and b and b here and has done for 15 years. Don't know the answer to that one does anyone else? I didn't think you got 100% cover unless it was a medical problem on the "list".

[LesLauriers]

I didn't think you got 100% cover unless it was a medical problem on the "list".

You are correct.

[moonraker]

I'm recently retired and still need my mutuelle....I had to go down a notch or two as I couldn't afford to pay it with my very low income. Fortunately I don't need to change my specs too often and I hope my few remaining teeth will last for a few years!

[Sunday Driver]

Once your friend receives her E121 she will no longer have to pay her CMU contributions as they will then be paid for by the DWP.  She will still have to buy her top up to cover the shortfall in reimbursements.

[Will]

A couple of points - if anybody has a substantial pension in addition to the state retirement pension, or they carry on working after retirement age (which would include running a gite or B&B business) then this has to be declared as income and will be assessed for CMU contributions as well as other cotisations. The 100% cover for certain medical conditions is not automatic - and neither does it apply only to the so-called 'list' - it has to be recommended by your doctor and approved by the caisse so not everybody gets it by any means.

[LesLauriers]

"if anybody has a substantial pension in addition to the state pension... then this has

to be declared as income and will be assessed for CMU contributions as

well as other cotisations."

Will, this implies that even with an E121 the payment to CMU continues - is that really what you meant?

[Ron Avery]

It might be worth adding for completeness, that a state pension at age 60 for women is ony paid to those who paid an A rate stamp.  Others who paid a B rate (Married Women's) stamp, do not get their state pension OR an E 121 until their husband is 65 and then they receive a married persons pension. It is an anomally of the pension system in the UK that most finacial advisors tell you to get divorced as soon as you retire so that you get a much higher single person's pension.[:D]

Women may get some form of graduated pension at age 60 BUT they will NOT be issued with an E121 until they receive their state retirement pension and that may well be at age 65 + if they are older than their spouse.  

[Will]

Les Lauriers - as I am not of E121 age I don't know the precise answer, but I do know that if you continue to run any kind of business after retirement age, you are still required to pay cotisations - including very heavy pension contributions, oddly enough. There are only very small concessions. I have been told that income from overseas pensions (other than the state pension or possibly those pensions which are taxed at source) is assessed in the same way, whether or not you have an E121. That's only hearsay, so I cannot definitely confirm that this is correct - maybe somebody who is in this position could enlighten us?

[LesLauriers]

Will, for an E121 holder who is not working the contributions cease, whoever told you that they continued to pay was talking a load of old rowlocks.

I do not know the position of an E121 holder who continues to be employed or self employed, however your scenario of an E121 holder running a gite may affect a number of posters. Anyone care to add....?

[Will]

Thanks for that LL - my guess is that it was probably another example of the common confusion between acronyms. Although CMU contributions may not be due if you have E121 my understanding is that one can still be liable for CSG/CRDS on pension income.

I guess the gite question is likely to be treated differently according to where you are and whom you talk to, similarly to whether or not you need to register as a business (see previous posts, ad nauseam).

I think we are all agreed that a complementaire assurance is still necessary.

[LesLauriers]

Will said; "my understanding is that one can still be liable for CSG/CRDS on pension income."

No, once you are in posession of an E121 social charges can no longer be applied to non French sourced pensions, however unearned income is still subject to social charges.

I agree that a top up insurance is always advisable.

[Will]

I'm sure what you say is right, LL, but I have definitely come across people here with British pension (private, not civil service, company or state) paid to them in France which is treated by les impots as interest from investments and thus has 11% social charge slapped on it. They can well afford to pay it, though it isn't exactly unknown for the taxman (even the French ones) to get things wrong.