French equivalent of our GP's

[odile]

Again, I don't think it is really helpful to have a competition France versus UK. There are good doctors, even excellent ones, and mediocre or very bad ones in both countries. But could somebody tell me, out of interest, whether GPs in France do have specialist, compulsory GP training as the 3 years required in the UK. During GP training in the UK, doctors spend several short term periods, usually 6 months, but some times 3 months at a time in a variety of specialities, then time in a GP practice under the wing of a specialist GP trainer- before they are allowed to practice.

[JohnRoss]

Do they not, well have not been to the UK for the last 8 years so a bit out of touch. Matter of interest which number did you dial for the ambulance 112 or 15 and how did you get on?.......................JR

[KathyC]

[quote user="JohnRoss"]Do they not, well have not been to the UK for the last 8 years so a bit out of touch. Matter of interest which number did you dial for the ambulance 112 or 15 and how did you get on?.......................JR[/quote]

We dialled 15 for the SAMU as it wasn't an ambulance situation (otherwise I'd've phoned 18 for the Pompiers). Doctor came out within 20 minutes, did an examination, reassured us and advised us to see own doctor next day. 68 euros well spent, although I must put the feuille in to CPAM.

Odile, I don't think that we're competing, just having a general discussion of our experiences. You're quite right about GP training in the UK but I thought that this was a comparatively recent thing. I don't think that most older doctors had specific GP training, although I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[JohnRoss]

Thanks for the info. KathyC is right in that it is not a competition just a discussion of our experiences. Those who have concerns about medical care in France and maybe have pre-existing conditions before making the decision to move here may find such information useful and reassuring. Yes there are good and bad doctors in both countries but my experience here has been good compared with care in the UK. Top-up insurance is a little expensive here but again well worth it if you have to see doctors frequently. Here in Deux Sevres I have found that it does pay to have transport and be prepared to travel around a bit to see different specialists. The maximum I have had to drive for a consultation or surgery is just over an hour and half from home. This was because my generalist has a list of specialists he favours and so far his judgement has not disappointed. Services tend to be distributed here and not all in the local hospital. The local towns often have a dedicated X-Ray centre and a blood testing laboratory for example. Various clinics are around with their own specialisms. No doubt things may be different near large cities but here in the countryside small is often beautiful and just takes a little getting used to!...........................JR  

[Will]

I quite agree that it is pointless trying to turn things into a competition or to make comparisons between two very different services. One can only base judgements on personal experiences, and one person's experiences will not represent the norm. There are certainly good and bad points about both the NHS and the Sécu, just as there are good and bad doctors in each system. I have certainly come across misdiagnosis and bodged operations in France, as well as some of the horror stories one reads about from the NHS.

For the record, you can get home visits at all hours in UK if needed. Though it may not be from your own doctor, not even one from the same practice.

Something that both systems have in common is a funding crisis. It has to be said that the NHS currently seems better able to manage this (it has longer experience of doing so - though things have been changing in France), although this can often come across as a reduction in services for non-urgent cases. Something similar has to happen in France, as the current ethos of 'give treatment and think about funding it later' is not sustainable. It will be interesting to see what is done - I rather fear, but hope not, that it could easily add extra tiers of bureaucrats to monitor things, as happened in the NHS with its cost control and performance table policies.

[KathyC]

[quote user="Will"]

 

For the record, you can get home visits at all hours in UK if needed. Though it may not be from your own doctor, not even one from the same practice.

 

[/quote]

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't get a home visit at all hours in the UK, only that you couldn't call out your own doctor. We moved from an area with a specific out of hours service so it could have been any doctor from the whole area or even one that didn't practise locally.

[mint]

GP training in the UK isn't all that recent.  The need for training was implemented at about the same time as a hike in salaries.  I guess it was as good an incentive as any.  In a way, it made many newly-qualified doctors (and especially female doctors) begin to see GP practice as being other than the cinderella of the medical professions.  Money to equal that of doctors working in hospitals and the accompanying status made GP work very desirable.

I think I heard recently that GPs now also have continuing professional updates and training but I don't know if that's being done.  My information is well out of date!

[Daft Doctor]

Hi Sweet 17, maybe I can oblige.  GPs in the UK have had to do a minimum of 3 years specific vocational GP training (including a year working in General Practice) since the early 1980's, so nothing has changed there recently.  All GPs have to undergo annual appraisal, and have to prove they are following current best practice guidelines and have undertaken necessary training and education identified at the previous appraisal.  No one has been stopped from practicing because of a poor appraisal however, that isn't at the moment what it is intended for.

In the wake of all that Shipman business, there are plans for all doctors to have to be periodically re-accredited, but the powers that be haven't yet decided what would be a fair way of doing it.  Going through the appraisal process will be a part of it however, so most GPs do try to keep on their toes in this respect.  Its expected that re-accreditation will be introduced in the next 5 years, so the british public will be confident that the odd rogue like Shipman will be weeded out before they do too much harm!

 

[mint]

Thanks, doc.  I find your info most interesting though I no longer have any real interest as such.

We do have friends who are retired as well as practising GPs.  Can't see the younger ones having problems with accredition but the older ones in out-of-the-way practices?

I see problems looming..........

[odile]

Does anybody know whether or not French GPs do have to do specialist GP training- eg. a balance of hospitals specialities and a year supervised by a GP trainer. Or could they for instance, spend a few years doing, say, psychiatry, or dermatology, and then suddenly decide to become a GP. And do they have annual appraisal and re-accreditation?

[moonraker]

Odile

You can read french, scroll down to "Formation"

http://july.fixedreference.org/fr/20040727/wikipedia/M%C3%A9decine_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale

 

[odile]

Thanks for that interesting link Moonraker.

Again this is not a competition - but one of the differences between the UK and I believe, most or all other european countries, is that University entrance, including for  medicine-  is based on academic results only. In the UK though, students have to write a personal statement, backed by a teacher statement (A4 size each) stating their reasons for choice, their practical experience (jobs, voluntary work), their other skills (sport, music, etc) - and admissions tutors do take these into account- eg it is accepted tha it is not sufficient for a doctor to be an academical high flyer - but need to have empathy, understanding and a genuine interest in fellow humans. And GP training also put great emphasis on communications skills, ' bed-side manners' - as well as medical knowledge. I agree that doesn't make UK doctors better or worse- but it is an interesting difference.

[moonraker]

Well, this is France and the 2 or 3 times I've had to see a GP in the UK, I've really regretted not being in France.

A few years ago my 3 year old grandson (English born and bred) had bad earache, screamed all night and my daughter had to take him to the hospital or wait 3 days for the GP.

[odile]

Inexcusable - no GP should ask a parent to wait for 3 days for a sick child to be seen - in France or in UK. Remember your daughter has the right to change GPs.

Again, can't  judge on individual cases and this is not a competition. Just discussing differences in systems.

Regards

[KathyC]

[quote user="odile"]Thanks for that interesting link Moonraker.
Again this is not a competition - but one of the differences between the UK and I believe, most or all other european countries, is that University entrance, including for  medicine-  is based on academic results only. In the UK though, students have to write a personal statement, backed by a teacher statement (A4 size each) stating their reasons for choice, their practical experience (jobs, voluntary work), their other skills (sport, music, etc) - and admissions tutors do take these into account- eg it is accepted tha it is not sufficient for a doctor to be an academical high flyer - but need to have empathy, understanding and a genuine interest in fellow humans. And GP training also put great emphasis on communications skills, ' bed-side manners' - as well as medical knowledge. I agree that doesn't make UK doctors better or worse- but it is an interesting difference.
[/quote]

 

Because so many people get 3 or 4  A grades at A level these days it's very difficult for universities to pick out the real high fliers anyway.