french set top boxes - help!

[storeysinfrance]

hopefully someone reading this will be able to help us... hopefully!

our sky free-view connection thingy all works fine and dandy but...

we have an additional dish (60cm - yes, we know that alignment is tricky with the bigger sized dish) and want to use that - and this is the bit we're confused about - via a french set-top-box - to get french tv...

sounds simple..? well, am sure it is and we know - 'cos we've seen them - that they're available in the likes of d'arty, brico-wotsit stores but... the question is... which one to get?

all we really want is something thats basic... can get the regular french channels... does tnt (for example) reach our area?

anyhow, its kinda becoming a bit urgent now since the tour de france is about ten days away and without that daily fix, life will be unbearable...

so... if anyone has any advice and can offer words of wisdom that genuinely non-techno folk understand... please let us know!

many thanks

neil - 24 (brantome)

[Martin963]

For the ordinary French channels,  the set ups you have seen will undoubtedly be the ANALOGUE feeds from Atlantic Bird 3 at 5 deg west.   Very simple,  not difficult to find with a 60 cm dish.   However,  being analogue,  they use SECAM colour encoding,  which will NOT display colour on the majority of UK sourced sets (even fed via scarts,  although some moderner UK sets are beginning to be SECAM compatible).   If you have a French TV it will be delighted,  and should switch between PAL or RGB to SECAM with no problems (although you just might have to check the menus are set to Auto).

This feed via satellite is really intended as back-up for the microwave distribution system to the national tx network,  so it is fairly unlikely that it will be switched off for at least - a guess - five years.   Many "ordinary" people use it,  particularly where FR5 and M6 reception is inadequate on UHF.

There is - on the same satellite - a digital version of FR2/3/4/5/Arte/Parliament.   Attention! - there is a distinct possibility that these may either go encrypted or vanish when the 6th TNT MUX comes on stream in the future.   No one knows.

So if you have a digital set already (but a Sky box is not suitable as the bit rate for the digital French TV is non-standard) then you could try out the digital reception as outlined above.   Otherwise,  go and get an analogue box,  having noted the SECAM problem above.   

Let us know when you succeed!

[storeysinfrance]

errrr... thanks... it sort of answers my question which, actually, i'd hoped was a lot simpler... but, perhaps not?

i don't have a french set top box and thats what i really need!

but, am now a bit more muddled than before as i've not a clue if our (new) tv is secam enabled or not... the boffins at toshiba have told me that the tv (british bought just before christmas) should work perfectly well if connected by a scart lead to a french set top box so maybe that means it is secam enabled but... i know not. and, i'm not that mad keen on investing in a set up to find all that we end up with is glorious black & white.

we've seen all manner of boxes for sale - tnt and others... but, which to go for...?

i realise this is a bit of a minefield and probably i'm being really dense (sorry)... but, just need some very very simplified advice!!!

thanks

neil

[Martin963]

Sorry,  it isn't that easy to keep it simple,  but I'll try.

A TNT box would solve your colour problems (*),  but there is a very big IF.   At Brantome you are on the very edge of the Maisonnay (Niort designated) transmitter's service area.   The VHF TV and FM signals probably get through OK,  but unless you have a very good take-off north west I suspect that the UHF signals fare much less well.   Brantome has its own UHF relay which rather supports this view,  although it may in part be to fill in the town valley,  reception on the hills from the main transmitters round and about would be better.

Anyway,  Maisonnay does transmit TNT.  The other high power transmitter for the area (at Les Cars,  for Limoges) is not TNT equipped and does not even have a date pencilled in,  for various reasons I won't go into here.

My bet is that you won't get a TNT signal (transmitted on UHF) from Maisonnay so unless you know someone nearby with a working TNT box who can confound my prediction,  don't waste your money on that route.

I take it that your Toshiba won't tune direct into Brantome/Les Cars/Maisonnay or anywhere else via an aerial.  Have you tried?   If it is possible on the Toshiba to directly key in the channel numbers I can tell you what they are so that you can check.

But it is probably quicker to dig out the manual for the Toshiba;   it will say in the specifications whether it can handle SECAM (in which case you could go and get the analogue satellite box);  but BEFORE you do that have a good look in the spec for the UHF systems it can handle;  if bought in the UK then system I is necessary,  so look for that as a clue.   Then see if any other systems are mentioned;  it may for example also handle B/G,  but what you need to look for for French analogue terrestrial TV (ie via an aerial) is system L.   It should say somewhere.   If it does L then all you need is a conventional aerial on the roof and you can just watch that way.   Although if you don't have a suitable aerial it's probably cheaper to buy the analogue satellite box and struggle with your existing spare dish rather than pay someone to go on the roof. 

Have a trawl in the spec and report back - I'm happy to help as far as I can;  there is no point in buying any sat equipment if you don't need it.

Sadly we are right the other end of Perigord from you (east of Excidueil) where we have (in our valley) hardly a ghost of a UHF signal, all our reception is via satellite.

(*) - because it outputs separate red/green/blue signals (RGB) via scart which your Toshiba could not fail to display properly.

[Gyn_Paul]

Martin,

Would you happen to know where can I find a list of French transmitters, locations and frequencies for FM and TV?

paul

 

 

[Deimos]

For TNT http://www.tnt-gratuite.fr/

Don't know about normal TV nor FM (sorry).

Ian

[Martin963]

Hi Paul

http://www.csa.fr/infos/operateurs/operateurs_television_sites.php

http://www.csa.fr/infos/operateurs/operateurs_radio_frequences.php

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/tvignaud/index.html,  click on liste

I also have a self-compiled complete list in Excel format of both TV and Radio which is fairly up to date,  but too bulky to send by email..

Let me know if I can help though

Martin

[Gyn_Paul]

Martin, Thank you that's brilliant, Just what I wanted; now I can at least point the aerial in the right direction.

Interestingly, (as an entirely unrelated side-bar) I notice that in all the departements which surround (as it where) the Channel Islands, there isn't one single transmitter which isn't horizontally polarized, yet the Home Office insist on saying that DTT (and channel 5, for that matter) isn't (aren't) possible in the islands because of co-channel interference with France. What would be wrong with a vertically polarized tranmitter at Fremont Point, I wonder?

Strikes me the islanders get very poor value for their licence fee!

Sorry to go so far off-topic; must be the heat. 10.35 and my outside thermometer - not in direct sun - says 33C and not a leaf stirs!

p

[Martin963]

Hi Paul

From what I remember cross polarisation only achieves about 10 dB of protection,  and I seem to recall you need a lot more than that (over 40 dB ?) to allow channel sharing,  even for the same programme (which this wouldn't be).

Without wishing to stir up a debate in these engineeringly hallowed portals,  I do remember that the French would object on principle to any applications the BBC made to the EBU/ITU to change/open UK transmitters (radio or TV).   Persuading them to allow DTT at all was a struggle, and a number of UK DTT tx's opened on low power simply because of international objections (powers were often increased (eg Rowridge) when it was proved that there really was no problem).   I suspect that finding 6 DTT channels  clear around Fremont Point is just too difficult (particularly as Rennes St Pern is transmitting TNT now) 

I suspect that part of the problem is also getting programme feeds out to the Isles - I can probably check how DTT is distributed but it would take a while.   But this has often been a problem in the past.

[Martin963]

Actually I must refine my previous post (particularly if Mazan is watching us!).   That 10 dB figure applies to VHF band 1 and I suspect that at UHF the protection afforded by cross polarisation is greater,  but still not enough to protect existing French transmissions from vertically polarised DTT at Fremont Point.   Certainly by the time you get to satellite frequencies it is significantly greater;  in fact one frequency on Hispasat used (maybe still does use) cross polarisation to carry two separate multiplexes,  and it DID work,  you could get two different sets of channels on the one frequency by altering the polarisation.   Don't know why more use of this isn't made to economise on frequency usage.....

[Gyn_Paul]

I would be the first to confess that my technical knowlege is all 'hands-on' stuff and very little 'book-lerrnin', but surely the cross-polarization protection figures apply to analogue transmissions, not digital? Or is it actually a carrier problem to start with ??

Doesn't alter the fact that the poor islanders get a bum deal, with the Department of Media, Sport and Leather (or Home Office, or whoever it is who deals with irate, complaining foreigners) seemingly rolling over and giving in any time anyone objects.

Well, regardless of how well-advanced French DTT is by the end of the decade, a workable solution is going to have to be found for when the Analogue TXers are finally unplugged.

Perhaps the best idea would be a ring of a dozen 50W transmitters 2 miles off-shore, tightly-lobed to face the land