living in France and working for UK Company

[Katieb]

I'm sorry if this question has been posted before - we have searched but are unable to find posts with similar situations.

When we left the UK (7wks ago) my husband was employed as a contract programmer under an umbrella company, he obviously left that company when we left the UK.We applied for our E106's (which have now been received and we've applied for our Carte Vitale). However, my husband's work status has now changed as we did not expect him to be working here initially and we are not sure how to deal with the tax implications. A Uk company has asked my husband to do some work for them (as a employee of theirs) which he is able to do whilst living in France (via internet/web based programmes). They are able to pay him directly into our french bank account and advise him that he doesn't have to pay UK tax as he isn't resident there. Is he able to pay into the french system  - if so how? Would this mean that our E106's are now issued incorrectly.

It isn't clear how long the work from the UK will last and how much there will be (although it is estimated that he could do about15-20hrs per week).

We do not want to avoid paying taxes but are very confused as to whom/how we should pay them.

I hope i have expressed this clearly - any advise would be greatly received.

Thank you,

Kate

[Iceni]

If you get this wrong it could prove very expensive so the first step is to go and talk to at least one French accountant - preferably one who speaks English if you do not speak French.

Taking advice from unqualified helpful people could cost you in a situation like this - hope you get it sorted and it all works out.

[Nick Trollope]

IANAA. As Di says, you must see one. However, the ones we tried did not actually know the answers. Nor for that matter, did the URSSAF.

'Er indoors was for 18 months whilst living in France a PAYE employee of a UK Charity (until she was laid off in June). On the advice of the Inland Revenue (or whatever they call themselves nowadays!), her employers paid her after deducting tax, but not NI. The logic behind the NI issue is that, as she worked in France then she should subscribe to the French system (which I note you do).

At the end of the year, she reclaimed her tax from the Inland Revenue and completed a French tax return and paid tax to the French Authorites (less, actually).

Contrary to popular belief, there is no agreement between the UK & France that takes PAYE contributions in one Country into account in the other.

Your husband must register with (I presume) the Chambre de Commerce to entitle him to work in France (regardless of by whom he is employed).

Under no circumstances accept payment gross from an employer in the UK, you could end up paying the French employers social contribytions, too - very pricy!

Ask a accountant (but see my comments above)!

 

 

[Will]

Di and Nick are perfectly correct, you need to take proper advice from somebody qualified to give it. This has been discussed many times before but the forum search facility does not always work properly.

The basic principle is that if you live in France, and carry out work while in France, you are taxed in France. What is probably more important, and more relevant, is your social security and health care status. Normally, you need to register as a business or 'profession liberale' in France in order to take on work (not necessarily with the Chambre de Commerce). This means that your E106 may indeed be superseded, though there is nothing, in theory, to stop you working on a temporary basis under an E form. There are often ways around this, which allow you to pay social security and/or tax in Britain, usually if the work is of a temporary nature, and depending on what the work is (many types of work cannot be legally carried out in France without registering a business in France or being employed by a French company). These are interim solutions though, normally lasting a maximum of two years, rather than permanent arrangements. If the arrangement is to last longer than this, the employer must use, or set up, a French subsidiary to employ you, and as the implications of this can be quite onerous, few employers are prepared to do this.

The situation can be very complex, and getting it wrong can be catastrophic, so you need to ask yourself whether or not it is worth it. Nick is correct too in that many of the officials you will be dealing with will not know how to treat the situation, and if you follow their wrong advice then it will be regarded as your responsibility rather than theirs. At least a proper French accountant should have profesional insurance.

[Pangur]

We were in a similar position in that my husband wanted to continue working for his UK company while resident in France.  From our experience, there are two main options:

- either he sets up as a representative of the company in France and pays his own and the company's social security contributions into the French system

- he sets up as an independent consultant in France with all the security payments that entails.

You should be aware that the employer's contributions to social security in France are much higher than in the UK (more than double I think) and if the company is not willing to pay this, you will be considerably out of pocket.  My husband's company agreed to pay him gross and he pays the social insurance directly to the French system but he has to cover the excess himself, which greatly reduces his take home pay.   It may be better in the long run for your husband to set up as a consultant and charge the company accordingly to cover all your social security payments.

In any case, as Iceni says, you definitely need to find an accountant to take you through the process and there may well be other options.  It can take a long time - we started the 'representative in France' process in February, have supposedly been ìn the system since 1st May and have only just received the paperwork that we can take to CPAM to set up the carte vitale process.  We still haven't actually paid any NI and are nervously awaiting the first bill

If you have started the carte vitale process already, I wouldn't worry too much about it: you are entitled to enter the system due to your UK NI payments.  In any case, it will probably take you months to get any official paperwork to show CPAM that you have paid any French NI.

There has been some discussion on the forum about this, but as Iceni says, an accountant is definitely the first step.  Good luck!

 

[Pangur]

In case it helps with accountants -

URSSAF du Bas Rhin has issued our siret number and they also produce a leaflet called 'Employeur non établi en France'  so if your accountant is looking confused, (s)he could call them.