SMIC - minimum hourly wage questions

[storeysinfrance]

A number of people on here have been really helpful in clarifying a few of our queries - nb: from the employee's perspective - however... what we're still trying to get to the bottom of is:

a) Can an employer to pay salary x by any means - cash / normal cheque or should it only be by using the special CESU cheques... or could it be one method one month, another method in a different month? Or does the method of payment matter at all because...

If salary x can be paid in any manner - it logically follows that the employer still has to make the relevant contributions as if salary x was being paid using the CESU cheques - presumably a bit less time-efficient for the employer but... hey, thats the employer's problem.

b) What do the two figures - 7.16 & 8.44 - refer to that have been bandied back and forth on various threads as being the hourly minimum salary?

The 8.44 is on the actualites sociales hebdomaires (7 sept 2007) document that I collected from our local social services last week and, I believe, refers to the mimimum hourly gross wage payable - its clearly noted there as salaire minimum (SMIC).

And in which case, how or where does the 7.16 figure fit into the equation? And, can anyone shed any further light into this dark tunnel?

Many thanks

Neil (24)

 

[Nick Trollope]

As I understand it....

Start again. As I believe it works, CESU must use CESU cheques (it is different for the commercial -CESU-TPE - system).

8€44 is the French minimum wage, the minimum gross amount that an adult can earn. 7€16 is the SMIC less the employees contributions - his nett. If you are paid via CESU, you earn the minimum wage, less your contributions, the employer then pays his contributions when the empoyee cashes the cheque (automatically). This is basically the same method if you were a "proper" employee.

You may earn SMIC, but you will never be paid it, because social charges (like NI) must be deducted at source (where, unlike the UK, income tax is not).

Make sense?  Good. Now write me a 1000 word essay on "why the French social system is in the shithouse" In French, please. By Thursday.

[storeysinfrance]

thanks nick... really helpfull.

rgads, neil (24)

[sikhim]

    Hello

re: CESU must use CESU cheques (it is different for the commercial -CESU-TPE - system).

I can confirm that this is incorrect.

You can use any payment method (your own cheque book, cash, instead of the CESU   cheque book provided by your bank)

If you do not use the CESU chequebook, you need to register on the CESU website (as an employer) and complete the declaration online.  This will enable the employee to obtain the "attestation d'emploi" much more quickly than if the CESU cheque book is used (as the Volet Social has to be sent in the post)

The employee can also register on the CESU website to see what contributions have been made, and by whom.

The minimum payment is the SMIC plus ten per cent for paid holidays (congés payés)

it's all explained on the CESU website at http://www.cesu.urssaf.fr/cesweb/home.jsp

On this site, the employer can also calculate the amount of the net  payment to the employee, which will be after deducting the employee's share of social contributions.

If salaire réel is chosen, the social contributions are calculated on the actual amount paid.  If base forfaitiare, the deductions are calculated on the numbers of hours worked, multiplied by the SMIC hourly rate.

Hope the above helps. The reason people still think you have to use the CESU cheque book and complete and return the Volet Social, is because I think being able to declare online is a relatively recent addition to the system.

Dominique

[merliauds]

Hi Nick

You say that if you are paid via CESU, you earn the minimum wage etc. Does this mean that you can't be paid more than the minimum wage or have I misunderstood?

Working on my essay.........

[storeysinfrance]

dominique

many many thanks... very helpful, clear and concise.

rgds

neil (24)

[Nick Trollope]

Well, one lives and learns...

& merliauds, no, you can earn whatever your employer is willing to pay you. However, I know of noone who uses CESU and pays anything other than SMIC. There is always someone willing to work for this amount...

[merliauds]

Thanks Nick. That's useful to know.