20 amp plugs and sockets

[Jackie]

Following advice from an earlier post I have put in two 20A circuits from the consumer unit for a washing machine and a tumble dryer. I note that these appliances come with standard 16A plugs. The 20A plugs and sockets, which I have, are rather chunky and I find it difficult to believe that the average person would cut off the molded on 16A plugs and fit these. Do they fit 16A sockets on 20A circuits? Are they not using dedicated feeds and are not 20A circuits, plugs and sockets now recommended? .............................John not Jackie

[Mikew]

"l'installastion électrique", page 219, shows 20A disjoncteurs (or 16A fuses) with wiring of 2.5mm sq conductors leading to a standard 16A outlet for each appliance. I've just looked at our installation , 8 yrs old, and it is the same. Yes, fit standard 16A sockets.

[VJ]

On a recent installation with french architect the local electrician confirmed the standard now is to fit 20 amp dedicated sockets for w/machine/dish washers/tumble driers

in fact in another installation he was cutting off the 16 amp plugs on the cooker and fitting the 20 amp type

Hope this helps

[Jackie]

Ok folks and thanks for the replies. It sounds as if the 20A dedicated plug and socket is a recent change to the recommendations about wiring washing machines and tumble dryers. I guess the manufacturers of these appliances will catch up in time. Meantime I have the two 20A sockets wired and ready to go with plugs so I will lop off the 16A plugs and replace them with 20A. Hope that does not affect the guarantee on the machine!.............................John

[Punch]

"Ok folks and thanks for the replies. It sounds as if the 20A dedicated plug and socket is a recent change to the recommendations about wiring washing machines and tumble dryers. I guess the manufacturers of these appliances will catch up in time. Meantime I have the two 20A sockets wired and ready to go with plugs so I will lop off the 16A plugs and replace them with 20A. Hope that does not affect the guarantee on the machine!.............................John"

 

NO NO NO wait a minute!

There is absolutely no reason why you need to change to 20 amp sockets! The latest French regulations clearly state that any "circuit spécialisées" serving washing machines, dishwashers, tumble driers,and such like should be wired in 2.5mm cable, protected by either a 20 amp disjonteur or a 16 amp fuse, AND should be plugged into a standard French 16 amp socket. of course if you want to install 20 amp sockets you can , but why?

The protection and fusing of circuits does depend on the appliance it is serving so any domestic appliance that does need a 20 amp (about 4KW) supply should have a 20 amp socket, but they are few and far between.

Cookers are a different circuit and often need a 6mm 32amp supply and/or a 20 amp socket.

VJ, The only reason I can see for doing what your local electrician did was to distinguish these sockets from standard sockets.

I know the French regulations very well indeed after 16 years, eight of which I've been working here and don't like to see people misled.

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VJ]

Paul am I reading this right? John has the 20 amp sockets wired in 2.5 and backed by a 16amp or 20amp MCB for each of them so it is only a matter of changing plugs or fitting standard sockets

(Meantime I have the two 20A sockets wired and ready to go with plugs)(quote)

I spoke to Electrician and he said with a motor and 3 kw heater on some machines (NOT ALL)he always wires a 20 amp also if the socket is part of the radial another socket could have the tumble drier on as well.

therby exceeding MCB laoding

That he beleives is the best way and I do see the logic

[VJ]

(NOT ALL)he always wires a 20 amp also if the socket is part of the radial another

Sorry may have misled here should read if the 16 amp socket is part of radial that is reason for fitting dedicated 20 amp

[Punch]

VJ I don't quite understand where you are with this?? Even a domestic appliance with a 3KW load and a motor will still work fine on the circuits I describe above, rated 16 amp sockets with some to spare, so 20 amp (unless the appliance has a special rating or is a commercial machine) is unnecessary.

Paul

 

[VJ]

paul what is being said is if you have say five outlets stadard french sockets radial, backed by a 16 amp breaker . If one has the washing machine on and one the tumble drier 3kw amd 3 kw plust motors and say the fridge is also on the radial you will trip the breaker

So he wires indidvidually the outlets and he puts on 20 am socket outlets

He could as you say easily put standard outlets on but he again would wire them separately

Ok regards

[Punch]

Thanks VJ, for that.

Any qualified electrician in France should not put all those appliances together on a standard radial circuit anyway, which is bad practice and is also contrary to the French Normes NF C 15-100 ! As I said in my earlier post, all such appliances should be on separate circuits and are classed as "circuits spécialisées" on standard 16 amp sockets. Are you sure he is a qualified electrician?

best regards,

Paul

 

[VJ]

Exactly as he is doing but he does not put standard plugs on as the machine can be put in a standarrd radial outlet So he always puts in a 20 amp dedicated outlet

I reckon this one has run its course now Phew

Oh I did not question his qualifications as he runs a rather large electrical eng and instalattion Co

I also did not fancy a spell in Hospital !!!!!

[Jackie]

Ok folks, well what I have done for now is use two 20A to double 16A sockets converter. One in each of the 20A sockets. Not ideal but at least I don't have to cut the plugs off the machine leads. The two circuits are wired back directly to the consumer unit in 2.5mm sheathed black cable, where there is a switch and 20A fuse for each dedicated circuit. Each machine does not have a rating of more than 2.7kW so no worries there. As I say not ideal but saves a lot of hassle and gives me an extra couple of 16A sockets, several cms away from the nearest pipe, under the sink for extraordinary use, which means never probably! By the way live and neutral swap position between the two sockets on the adaptor! Also the local DIY place sells lots of single 20A to 16A adaptors, I wonder why! So there, and thanks to all for comments............................John