cookehouse Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Have read recent posts and Renovating and Maintaining your french home I felt confident in planning out the first fixing. That was until I visited a friend who was in the process of having the job done professionally by a French sparky. I was planning on 4 to 5 fittings per circuit both lighting and power. The example I have now seen has a dedicated circuit for everthing 36 cicuit breakers and still counting does seem over the top not to mention the gaines - it looks like a small power station. Have the rules changed? or is the French sparky over egging the installation. Whilst I cannot see anything wrong with dedicated circuits what do you do when her in doors decides on an extra light or socket when you finished plastering over the chasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 4 or 5 "fittings" per circuit (or breaker) is fine. I don't know a genuine electrician of any nationality who would run single socket from a single breaker (except for "specialised circuits"), if that is what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerac Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 The crucial question is whether or not you have an existing supply. If you do then you have a bit more leeway, but if you have to apply for a new connection then you must get an inspection certificate from 'The Consuel', and you have a whole set of very precise standards to meet, not only for the main electrics but also for TV connections and telephone/computer network points. For the ordinary lighting and power then you can have up to 8 'connections' per radial circuit, but the main kitchen appliances are all one per radial. Just how many is defined by the habitable area of the house.The area also defines how many RCDs (interrupteur differential) are required. Our renovation is over 100 sq.m and we have four rows in the tableau, each protected by a RCD. There are 40 individual circuit breakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bejay Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Yes French electrics can be quite a surprise after the robust simplicity of a British T&E ring main!Its a good system though and worth the effort but I don't think its most ardent admirers would call it economical.bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 [quote user="bejay"]Yes French electrics can be quite a surprise after the robust simplicity of a British T&E ring main!Its a good system though and worth the effort but I don't think its most ardent admirers would call it economical.bj[/quote] Agreed.Safe, safer even but not economical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 The built down to a price plein pied / single storey houses now seem to need a minimum of 20 circuit breakers. As soon as you put in a feed for hotwater, dish washer, washing machine, oven, fridge,freezer, micro wave central heating pump and a socker per rail for the CONSUEL you a pretty close to 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheLight Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 HiWe have a 30 amp supply, we may upgrade it to 40 or perhaps even more, but it's unlikely to get to more than 80. As long as every circuit is protected against overload, short and earth fault (RCD protection) I can't understand the point or the benefit of having 30 or more 20A circuits. Fully loaded this would be 600A. The house isn't big enough to fit enough appliances in to draw this load, and I doubt EDF would give me this size supply anyhow. So what is wrong with, say 4 x 16A socket circuits with the sockets in 2 or 3 rooms sharing the same circuit with seperate circuits for cooker, washer and water heater, and 3 lighting circuits? The worst that could happen is that the MCB trips. What is unsafe about this? Have the french not heard of Diversity?Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 There is nothing wrong with what you suggest - provided it complies with the regulations in France. In practical terms, you are allowed 5 sockets (single or double) on a single feed (breaker), or 5 lights. There really is no point in discussing what the French do or don't do as, like the UK (or the US or wherever), there are regs to be followed to the letter. End of!BTW, the biggest domestic supply you are likely to get (in most of France) is 75A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I thought 5 was the PROMOTEC recommendation but 8 being the maximum for lighting (1.5mm) and also for power provided you use 2.5mm rather than 1.5mm. Bearing in mind there will be a pre sale electricity survey , like lead and asbestos in the near future, it seems pound foolish to save a few Euros on disjointers and cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 The Frech wiring Regs are quite clear - Maximum number of sockets outlets using 2.5mm cable is EIGHT. If using 1.5mm Cable the number is reduced to FIVE . For lighting circuits maximum number of points is EIGHT.Anton is correct that is you are going for the Label Promotelec then the maximum (recommended) number of sockets is FIVE. The Label Promotelec is generally for new build Pavillions and such like, and for the majority of forum users would probably not apply.You have to weigh up each job on it's individual circumstances on site, for instance if I was wiring a house which had seperate electric heater circuits then I would confortably put eight on one circuit if need be and especially if they were only ever going to be used for table lamps and such like. But if the house had wood heating, or no heating then there would be a distinct possibility that the customer would go and plug in heaters in the bedrooms and such like during the winter months. Therefore I would probably put in more circuits to allow a bit of diversity. I also make allowances wether I am installing double or single sockets - this is because a double socket counts as ONE for the regs, so that would mean you could have up to eight doubles on one circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookehouse Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 Thanks everyone for your comments!I have taken them on board and will modify the design. Fortunately it is an existing supply (3 phase , 15 amps per phase) this of course makes planning more interesting to ensure even distribution. My plan now is to run small circuits of one or two and use 1.5 mm for lighting and where the load is say a bedside lamp and use 2.5 mm for the remainder.I already have a 30mamp 3 phase ELCB do you recommend subsequent ELCBs on the individual phases. I will run 1 phase from each bar of a triple box and my 3 phase water heater from its own box.cookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Frankly, I'd suggest that you either engage a professional or at least buy a couple of books on the subject - plenty of titles offered in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookehouse Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share Posted July 22, 2007 Cheers Nick, I will be using a pro but want to give him a proper brief you see you may not know an electrician who wires up each socket with an independent circuit breaker - but I do and I dont want to hire his twin.cookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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