Jackie Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I am taking out a number of small old fixed electrical panel heaters that have been installed in bedrooms. Each one is wired back to the main switch board/consumer unit and has its own breaker fused at 10 amperes. Is there anything in the regs to say that I should not install a single 16A 3pin socket on each of these circuits. The wiring appears to be the same as that used in lighting circuits i.e 1.5mm. I remember reading somewhere that a single socket could be fitted to a lighting circuit. I understand that the maximum load on each would then be limited to just over 2kW so can I do it with out breaking some regulation?.........John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyn_Paul Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 The sockets are designated 10/16A, so it seems to me that a dedicated 1.5mm cable plus an individual 10A breaker should fit the bill. I take it it's 3-core cable?p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Jackie you can do this it will be absolutely fine. Even if the circuit breakers in the tableau electrique unit were 16 amp rated it would still comply with French regulations (but you may as well leave them at 10 amps). All thi is assuming that the installation is in good condition with PVC wires and a good earth.For your information, it is possible now to have up to five 16amp socket outlets on a single radial circuit, using 1.5mm wires and protected by a 16amp circuit breaker. Of course you must also have an interrupteur differentielle rated at 30 milliamp trip current protecting your installation as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 Many thanks for the information. There are in fact 4 individual wires in a circular flexible plastic trunking (gaine?). The fourth being, I assume, a pilot wire to turn the heaters on during cheap rate, I will insulate this and not connect it to anything. The breaker I mentioned is in fact a switch on the consumer unit which has a 10amp fuse built into the handle which you can pull out when the switch is off. I could, I suppose, change this for an overcurrent trip but I would rather not unless I have to! There is a differential breaker for the whole house rated to drop out with a 500ma imbalance. So if you think that this is ok I will go ahead.........J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyn_Paul Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 No. This sounds to me like you are discribing the EDF 500mA breaker. Does it have a little window on the front which displays the maximum amps your installation is set to? You need an entirely separate 30mA disjoncteur differentiel to protect you and your installation.I'll bet the bathroom is an electrical nightmare as well!p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyn_Paul Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Sorry, I typed that rather too quickly...make that -"... if it were my house, I'd feel happier if I knew I and my house were protected by a 30mA DD.less prescriptive. Much better.p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 Ok thanks for the suggestion. Yes I was describing the EDF thingy. Where would you put such a 30ma trip both physically and electrically? For the whole house or one in line for each modified heater circuit?..............J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Firstly you need to change the individual circuit protection 10A fuses for 10 or 16 Amp disjoncteurs (circuit breakers ) The regs state that 1.5mm cable feeding 16amp sockets ( maximum 5 per circuit) does not comply if the origins of each circuit are protected by fuses.Secondly, the EDF trip rated at 500milliamp trip gives minimal protection for the whole installation and therfore you need to install at least one and preferably two 30 milliamp trip ID's, between the EDF trip and the tableau electrique to protect all individual circuits in the house. This is often placed in the tableau itself if there is room or if not in a seperate enclosure. Personally, I would suggest you contact a professionel to make sure the installation is correctly done as judging by what you have described above would mean completely re-fitting your tableau electrique.I could go on to make your installation safer, but you should also make sure you have a good adequate earthing system rated at less than 100 ohms resistance.As a company we carry out what is termed as "mis en securité " of electrical installations in partnership with Promotelec and the Consuel and these are an example of some of the minimum requirements for bringing older installations up to scratch. www.punchardrenovation.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Ok to save me experimenting can the switch containg the fuse be just unclipped from the metal rail that it and all the others are fastened to or do they have to slide off one end. If the latter is the case then I would have to disconnect them, slide them off, slide on the breaker, 10 or 16A, and then slide back all the other switches and reconnect them. I hope you are going to say that the former and not the latter is the case. I would, of course, isolate the board first. Should all the other fused switches for both power and lighting be now replaced with breakers? There must be millions of consumer units with these! Used to have 30ma trips in the UK and they were a bit too sensitive for my liking, often tripped out due to intitial surge in switching on a microwave oven, capacitor charging on filter in mains supply. Will look into fitting one though........J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 See my reply on the "other" forum that you have posted the same question on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 Ok thanks, What the bulk of opinion seems to be on this and the other forum is, if I have understood all the helpful advice, that my single panel heater individual circuits which will now feed a three pin single 16 amp socket are ok with 1.5mm wires but need the fused switches for each circuit on the consumer unit changing for 10 or 16A over current trips/breakers. The existing switches with their 10A fuses incorporated are not acceptable by the current regs. Further a 30mA trip (differential imbalance detector type), (or two in series?) should be fitted between the EDF 500ma differential trip and the consumer unit. I assume this is a safety recommendation and not mandatory. I note the suggestion that some of this work should be carried out by a "Professional" but again I assume that this is not mandatory as it may be in some countries. I will put this on the other site for the benefit of anyone doing the same thing and not monitoring both.The point about changing the switches for breakers does raise again the question about the need or otherwise to replace all those fused switches on the consumer unit that feed other 16A sockets wired in 2mm and those that feed lighting circuits wired in 1.5mm. Our installation was put in post 1985 and must have been accepted by the EDF at that time and there must be a lot of consumer units like ours around and raises the question about the need for conformity when selling a property..................have I got this right?..............J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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