Should we blame the builder.... or not?

[splishsplash]

Thanks Quillan

It has been very helpful & I will certainly let you all know the outcome.

I don't expect it will be very soon though!

[AnOther]

[quote user="splishsplash"]There is a 10 year building guarantee, but I believe that this only applies to work that is faulty or something that is broken.
I am not sure how we will stand with a problem like this.[/quote]

For reference: http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/building/new-build/defect-guarantee/builders

[Quillan]

I think you hit the report button Splishsplash rather than the Post button so for the benifit of others I will post your comment re Another post here then answer it.

"The word "Minefield" springs in to my head!"

Well no more really than making any type of insurance claim in the UK or France. In your case it's quite clear and I quote "During the ten years from completion to guarantee all those works concerned with the stability and integrity of the building, including those elements which ensure the building is wind and watertight eg foundations, floors, walls, staircase, ceilings, door and window frames, major electrical and plumbing defects, roof, framework – l’assurance décennale."

Now basically the roof, from what you have said, is not installed correctly therefore when it rains and the wind blows at a reasonable force from a certain direction water enters your house to such an extend it has impregnated the ceiling which has either fallen down or needs to be replaced as a result. This is clearly covered by the above statement.

Now personally I have made a few insurance claims since being in France for things that have broken including two washing machines, a dishwasher, and expensive digital SLR camera body and one tumble drier and that's with a company called AXA who some will say are a bunch of rouges yet I have had no problem with them. It's how you deal with them, follow the 'rules' and your OK but you have to 'think French' and not 'English' as things are done differently here but don't be put off it really is quite simple. The main difference I have found once or twice is that you may be asked to get an 'Estimate' and send it to them after which you will get a letter back saying it's OK to go ahead, I had this with a brand new SLR camera I dropped it in the river the day I got it. I had to pay for the repair (actually they replaced the body) then send the receipt to the insurers to get my money back. In my case I took it round to the AXA agent with a copy of the letter telling me to proceed with the repair and he wrote me out a cheque for 800 odd Euros there and then.

Another trick the French do is to add your excess to the 'estimate' so when the jobs done there really is nothing to pay, common practice round my neck of the woods. The French love to get 'one over' the system.

 

[Devon]

Crikey, it would be quicker to run up and down the roof with a couple of buckets of cement and fix the problem then read this thread from start to finish [:D]

[BIG MAC]

When you make a claim under a policy of insurance.....you don't claim building repairs....you claim the money for them. To put it another way..you claim to be put back in the same financial position as you would have been in relation to the insured event as you would have been immediately preceding its occurence. What's the chances of a Loss Adjuster popping in here?

[bill]

Yes

French roofers always say they have never used roof felt because its good for circulation of air......Yes this is ok but only really if your on the coast of the south of France where its mostly hot all year round. If your in an area of Dordogne or Limousin then you will need felt on your roof no matter what they say. When i came to doing my roof i got a few roofers in just to see what kind of answers they would give me and what kind of price.

It was a joke ! i was quoted 14,000 Euros and 12,000 to have a new roof fitted (With Out Felt) from two difference companies and he told me it would take 2 weeks to complete.

I have worked on roofs before and even though i am not an experienced roofer but yet it isn't rocket science ! my roof would only take 4 days work with two guys and it was a good sized cottage !

I bought Tyvek Felt Membrane from the uk i bought 2 rolls at £90 each ! its the best membrane on the market today and french roofers havent heard of it because they are 25 years behind !!! also 25 years behind in giving quotes !!! no rush for them because they charge scandalous prices and don't have to work as much because they are loaded from robbing all us brits.....

My materials i bought from Bricoman for 1,600 Euros that was for the tiles, Batons, nails, Ridge tiles and all the other small accessories to complete the roof. If i had bought the materials from the uk it would still only cost me £2,000 for everything ! so french materials are also much cheaper but labour costs are a rip off !

The roofer added like 50% price on every item i would have ordered......

You'r best option is to do what i did ! get in touch with a small roofing firm in England pay for there flights over put them up in a caravan feed them keep them in beer pay them cash in hand and you'll still be saving lots of money....and they will have the job done in no time

The french think that all brits that come over are rich and won't think twice about stealing you hard earned savings for a job you could have got done for half of the price in half of the time.

You should be able to get Tyvek felt on amazon french version

If the French roofer has completed your roof and it has already started having problems then you should call him back and tell him to do the roof properly. They will give any excuse like Enviromental circumstances....wind Rain bla bla......

All these companies should also give a 10 year Guarantee

Hope this helps

[Chancer]

You have replied to a 5 year old thread, I only realised when i saw postings from the late Cooperlola god rest her soul.

Anyway I expect its still a very current problem with the OP and nothing will yet have been resolved except lots of very slow exchanges of paperwork, in the meantime their new roof on their new house will have let the heavens in on many more occasions and no doubt they will have given up replacing the upstairs ceilings if not given up the will to live.

The pnly people that I have seen use ecran sous toiture are self builders, of all the others I think most have lost their ceilings within the first few years of new French house ownership, they shrug their shoulders, either they or their insurers pay for the ceiling repairs but never to put the roof right as the DTU doesnt specify an ecran, then they wait with increasing fear for the next deluge.

This happens the length and breadth of France, it is inconceivable that underfelt is still not a requirement and still not fitted, I can only assume that the insurers are behind it for the fear it instills in their clients.

[Jonzjob]

If you pay 'cash in hand' to shipped in labour and the locals get to hear about it then you will be in trouble and look forward from a visit from the gendarmary. It's called working on the black. The employee and the employer will both get heavy fines and what then the cheaper job? Or the warranty for that matter?

there are loads of legal expat builders here, so if you are going to 'do it right' then why not them?

[Quillan]

First to say I am not implying that 'Bill' is like those I am about to pass comment on.

 

When you listen to Brits over here banging on about immigrants in the UK taking all the jobs mainly in the building industry and agriculture because they will work for lower wages than the Brits it is quite interesting to see that some (not all) are quite happy to bring cheaper British labour over to France to basically do the same thing and on the black to boot. I don't think they quite grasp that it is the employer in France that gets fined or worse if there is an accident. Remember years ago after the storms down south the guy working on the black who fell of some chaps roof (Montpelier way if memory serves, it was in all the newspapers down here at the time) while fixing lose tiles and broke his back? Cost the owner his house. I remember because I employed our neighbours 16 year old girl to clean rooms and she tripped over the power cord to the vacume cleaner. I thought I was doing us both a favour, bit of pocket money for her during the holidays and helped me out during a busy time. After reading that I had to 'sack' her which was sad all round but it is simply not worth the risk.