PaulaW

I *really* appreciate the comments. You guys helped me move here (especially Will) and that you're helping me again, now, is great - thank you so much. Will, I have been totally straight with all authorities - I have no UK address, they knew this.  Also, many thanks for your reassurance re the tenancy agreement - and to you too, NormanH! Benjamin, you're right...  I was renting in the UK.  No one at Newcastle uttered a word about having a UK address when I applied for the E101.  

You're right, C, it was about any state help I might be able to get for a short time until I go back to the UK - but Will possibly remembers my pre-move quandary which was completely referring to healthcare and the E101.  My understanding of my working here is also as Will's in that I am not working in the black.  But I should still, somewhere along the line, have registered with the French authorities and I have failed to do so - for this very reason.  I tend to have the outlook that nothing is forever, especially jobs and I always thought there was a serious possibility of having to go home.  But - nothing ventured, nothing gained and I am one of the lucky ones in terms of having plenty of people willing to put me and my son up for a few weeks in the UK, until I find my feet. In answer to Ben's question:  Yes, I do get UK child benefit.  I also get my tax credits but even that, plus my wages only just covers my rent.  It does not cover my living expenses, even on the typical, limited 'lone parent' budget. My main worry now is not so much the period of notice I have to give - I can cover that - but that I will not be held to the remaining four months of my tenancy agreement.  I don't mind being liable for the money (I can work out a repayment structure once I am back in work), that's fine but if my parents (as guarantors) were made to pay my rent for several months (given that their pensions have been considerably reduced by the pound's relative weakness against the Euro) it would be considerably damaging to them.  What I really need to know is if they will be liable - and I suspect they will, even if I give notice.

Thanks all, Cheers for the heads up re notifying anyone.  It looks like my only option, then, is to return to the UK ASAP to get work. So, in response to Pickles, I am renting a furnished property with a private landlady.  I am not fluent in French so can't understand the entire contract but it does say, under the heading "Duee Du Contrat":  "Bail a duree normale - Le present contrat est conclu pour une duree de 1 an"... which I take to mean it's at least a year.  The contract itself is entitled, "Contrat de location meublee - exclue du champ d'application de la loi no.89-462 du 6 juillet 1989".  I'm probably in the wrong section of the forum now :(

Hi all, I wondered if anyone can help... I live in France and work from home for a UK employer - as an employee.  I have an E101 as if I were seconded, even though it was entirely my decision to move to France (and did so in  June 2008).  I'm also a lone parent.  I pay UK tax and NI and contribute nothing official to the French system.  Other than the obvious school (which did involve an official visit to the town hall) and insurance registrations,I don't even know that I am an official resident.  When I moved here my job was as secure as any job can be these days but that has changed.  My working week has been halved and I am financially unable to sustain my living here. Returning to the UK is a viable option but not before my tenancy agreement terminates in June (my parents, also living in France, are guarantors and I can't leave them paying for the remaining months here!). Obviously I don't get the support here I would in the UK in terms of income top-up or housing benefit but I wondered if anyone had any advice on what help, if any, was available in France?  I'd really rather not live on benefits and am actively seeking other work but my main concern is covering my rent so that my parents don't have to pay it, before returning to the UK.  Any help or advice would be sincerely appreciated.

Ooops, sorry.  Re the voip - I can't use Skype for the business side of things because the phone system connects to a UK company's VPN and I have to put callers on hold, transfer call, conference call that kind of thing.  It's at their request that I remain with the same system. For domestic calls it's certainly cheaper than Orange and an option I'll investigate.  Thanks for the advice, Ernie.

[quote user="ErnieY"]I'm sorry but I don't see what is so 'untypical' about your network setup although like Danny, I'm not sure what you mean by 'hard-wired VoIP business telephone system'. I'm with Teleconnect and my system comprises their Tecom VOIP router with to which I have connected an 8 port hub. In turn connected to this are 1 PC & 1 Laptop, 2 TiVo network enabled PVR's, a networked printer and a NAS hard drive. Everything works perfectly. I don't know if they offer static IP's but I use DynDns for remote connection to the TiVo's and NAS unit. Most if not all domestic ISP's will supply a box which you necessarily need to use to benefit from their VoIP services and I think it is unfair to criticise Teleconnect (or any other ISP) for refusing to support 3rd party hardware. If you must use your own modem then why not use Skype for VoIP, they do a package for €10.29/mth which gives you unlimited calls to landlines in 36 countries worldwide. [/quote] Thanks all.  I guess calling the phone system "hard wired" was unnecessary - all I meant by it is that it's plugged directly into the router rather than being anything bluetoothey or wireless.  It was certainly a typical setup in the UK but both Teleconnect and the Orange English-speaking helpline have been quite unhelpful with the technical side of it. I realise that the Orange helpline is not technical support but I was hoping for someone who could at least sell me the right package I needed. I came across so many Gaelic shrugs that I began believing that what I was asking for was out of the ordinary. It's reassuring to know it isn't and that it's probably just a case of finding the right person to talk to. As for being harsh on Teleconnect for not supporting the hardware - I don't want them to.  I want them to support the connection.  In the UK I had several providers, all of whom were familiar with the router and whose technical support could always help. That hasn't been my experience with Teleconnect and my experience is all I have to go on.

Hi all, Sorry if this is an over-discussed topic but I did have a quick skim. If there are other threads already discussing this, I would be grateful if you would take a moment to link me to them by reply. I moved to Normandy five months ago. When I did I had a France Telecom line installed and procured the services of Teleconnect as the ISP. What I did not realise at the time, and learned a harsh lesson to the tune of hundreds of Euros, was that your France Telecom line is preselected by Teleconnect so that all calls, made via the modem or not, are charged by them. So, while I was on an all-inclusive package with FT (40 Euros per month) I was also being charged top whack by Teleconnect. I know - what a plank! The reason I wasn't using their modem is because despite various assurances from their helpline that my somewhat less than typical set-up would work fine through their "box" (god, am I sick of hearing the word box!), it didn't. Sadly, and to my amazement, Teleconnect told me they could not offer me internet service without the line pre-selection. ?? My second problem was that because I didn't use their own modem, Teleconnect used this as a dead-end "support" excuse every time I needed help. My situation is that I work from home. I run one desktop PC, 2 laptops on wifi and one hard-wired VoIP business telephone system. I do NOT need a "box" I need a fully operational modem with a minimum 4 ports - or at least the option to use my own and remain "supported" I also need a static IP address and if it could include bundled or unlimited phone calls (NOT voip but from my france telecom fixed line) to both France and the UK, and some TV, all the better but the ISP is my main priority. Having one bill for everything, and to have it work, seems like a very far away dream. My final problem, though not insurmountable, is that my verbal French is poor. This is why I chose Teleconnect to begin with - for their English technical help. I can order a baguette in a bakery no problem - but ask me to talk about IP addresses and modems and I'm lost. However - if there is an ISP out there who can give me what I need, I will overlook the fact that technical support could be tricky and cross that bridge when I come to it. I am fairly savvy re the whole home network thing so I could keep my fingers crossed. Please can anyone help? I am losing the will to live! Many thanks in advance. P.

Hi Zippy, Were you in France when the contract began?  If so, it's probably a case of tough sh1t for the company.  If you weren't, you need to accept that they have worries and whatever assurances you give them personally, they will not be swayed by you alone.  There are a ton of legal eagles over the Eures site - http://www.europa.eu.int/eures/home.jsp?lang=en You need a legal disclaimer, in writing, to reassure your UK employer that making use of you, and paying you, will not land them a fine.  I could be wrong but I think it's just a breakdown in communication - but even if it is, you should have this for future clients and for your own piece of mind. PS - now relocated, working and ooooh so happy!  :-)

Thank you all for the fab, as usual, advice and information.  I've tried many different forums and I have to say this is the best, most accurate one I have come across in terms of advice.  Maybe there are just more people here in similar situations, or at least with similar experiences, to mine.  Cheers again, guys.

Also, Will (sorry) - I notice on the E101 application form it asks if all my work will be internet and home-based.  Is this a trip-up?  Could my answer determine if the application is turned down or not?

[quote user="Will"][quote user="PaulaW"]As I understand it, the form my employers would have to complete to apply for the E101 asks them to lie - in my case (CA3821/2 ?).  They have to state that my move is temporary and estimate the date of my return, as well as stating it is their wish that I go abroad.  Both my employers are sticklers for the legal side of things and that is a document that, in the unlikely event it was needed, could arguably be used as evidence in a tribunal. [/quote] That's why it crosses into grey areas. I understand where you are coming from. I used the E101 when first in France, but then I was already self-employed in England, and taking the same contracts with me without a break, so any stretching the point was purely down to me, with no question of tribunals etc, and, anyway, I could easily justify being in France rather than England. We were genuinely not sure that it would work, so could justify the temporary nature, but Mrs Will's salaried job in France is still there some six years later. 'Lying' never came into it, but being potentially economical with the truth probably did.  It was simple to register as self employed - as profession liberale, which was done direct with URSSAF and bypassed the chambres de commerce or chambres des metiers which people will tell you you have to register through. Though I didn't fit into any of the pigeon holes so loved by French fonctionnaires. We did the registration ourselves (certain English-based companies wanted a four-figure sum for what amounted to filling in an A4 sheet of paper) and operated as a micro for the initial period, but known turnover was just over the limit for the second year so we used an accountant. The fees were, I think, around 2000€ for the year, but that included everything, and being a mixture of UK-contracted self employment and French salaried (with a lot of questions about employment matters) it was good value, particularly as cotisations were a lot lower with the accountant, despite the higher income. Incidentally, we were operating a small B&B sideline at the same time, which was treated as a totally separate micro entreprise. Cotisations are, according to the accountant, 46% of taxable income. So it pays handsomely to make full use of allowances etc to keep taxable income as low as possible, and there are many ways a good accountant can do this. If you pay tax afterwards, it is easy to see where the 50% figure comes from. As portage companies charge commission, I would personally go for self-employment rather than portage, but it's down to individual circumstances which is best for you.  [/quote] Thanks for the sound advice, Will.  The profession liberale + accountant sounds like a sensible plan.  What criteria do I need to meet in order to be classified as one, do you know?  Is there a site I can visit with this information on, to save you the job? There has also been a slight development in that one of my employers has said she may be willing to second me as it seems our clients may want to sub contract some work which would involve me travelling to offices in Paris and Madrid - I wonder how I would fare with only one of my employers doing the seconding...

[quote user="Panda"]When I was on PAYE I had an E106 so no problem there with health [/quote] Sorry to bombard you with questions, Panda - but what criteria did you meet to qualify for the E106 while employed?  I was told by the powers that be that I can't have one because I am employed and that my only other option is the E101 - confused.

[quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]Continental domination? Small fry! My wife & I used to share a Ltd company with 2 totally separate income streams -- Languages and IT. At one time we had a son in Tokyo and another in Moscow whom we could call on for translation support. A mate of mine said "You're not just a conglomerate -- you're a multinational!" MLB Ltd -- Tokyo, Moscow and Stow-on -the-Wold. [/quote] Albert, you have beaten me hands down.  Unless a brother in a high-rise in Stoke-on-Trent counts... ?

[quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]Paula, Will is as wise as ever, but the E101 may not be a goer so you need a plan B. Have you spoken to anybody at your employer about your dreams/plans? Something that many permanent employees are unaware of is how much it costs a company to employ them, over and above their salary. For example, they must pay 11%  employer's National Insurance contribution, so if you go freelance they save that straight away. Many firms allow 50% on top of salary for such costs so paying you 40% more could represent a saving. [:D] On the other hand they may not even consider the idea of using you as a freelance at any price, so you need to establish where you stand before putting in too much effort. You've presumably considered all the risks of freelancing, including being at the front of the queue if they need to lay people off. That said, I've been an IT freelance for 10 years, although with a succession of clients. Have a look at Jobserve.com just to see what else is out there. [/quote] Now that really is a different perspective to the many I've heard, thanks Albert.  Both employers have both options on the table - neither want to lose me so have at least said they will take the self-employment route.  That said, they are both somewhat enamoured with the prospect of 'moving into Europe' (me - in a tiny apartment in coastal Normandy = continental domination.  Bless) and have said they would like me to present the positives to them.  You've really helped!  I have been freelance in the UK before (as a writer, not in IT) so I have a little experience of the pitfalls and perks.  I think even as an employee, these days, you're only really as secure as a period of 30 days' notice, so self-employment doesn't seem so frightening. 

[quote user="Panda"]Hello I'm in IT too and registed as a profession liberale as a general consultant, my accountant basically went for as many different aspects of this as possible to cover all eventualities.  When I was on PAYE I had an E106 so no problem there with health, as you are working now you could apply for one of these or do as Will says and go for an E101 if you can get one, either one will allow you to register whilst you sort out your business.  I earn about the same as I would in the UK and pay about 25% of my gross income in charges and tax, I have no acutal overheads to speak of but if you did then this would bring this figure down of course. Sadly I'm in the Charente, you should advertise for friends (how sad does that sound but you know what I mean) on the other more 'adverty' forums, AngloInfo etc.  there will be others in your area in the same boat.  Good luck with it! Panda [/quote] Thanks again, Panda.  Your advice is greatly appreciated particularly since your situation seems very close to my own.  A shame you're so far away.  As for advertising for friends, if the reaction of my UK mates is anything to go by, I'll be seeing more of them in France than I ever do here!  My parents have lived in France for some years now too, also in Normandy, and are one of my reasons for making the move - they're not getting any younger. I would be interested to know, as a percentage of your income (if that's less intrusive), how much your accountant costs - I am struggling to understand why I would only see 50% of my gross salary (on a 7-10% fee) if I use a portage salarial, yet you use only an accountant and save half that. 

[quote user="Will"]Contrary to what you say, I see no reason why your employer could not apply for an E101 for you. That will give a year, in which you continue to pay tax and NI in Britain, with the possibility of one renewal, before the form expires. At the end of the E101 period you and your employer can decide whether it is all so wonderful that they continue to employ you in France and cover all the charges etc, that the whole thing is a disaster and you want no more to do with France, or whether you think you can both hack it with you being self employed, either under a direct contract or through portage. It's a route that admittedly crosses into some grey areas - and the E101 may not be granted - but is worth exploring because it gives you and your employer a chance to test the water without making an immediate commitment. [/quote] Hi Will, thanks.  As I understand it, the form my employers would have to complete to apply for the E101 asks them to lie - in my case (CA3821/2 ?).  They have to state that my move is temporary and estimate the date of my return, as well as stating it is their wish that I go abroad.  Both my employers are sticklers for the legal side of things and that is a document that, in the unlikely event it was needed, could arguably be used as evidence in a tribunal.

[quote user="Panda"]Hi Paula What line of work are you in?  [/quote] Hi Panda.  It's IT/admin based - one firm are a firm of commercial engineers, for whom I man the helpdesk and maintain their Lotus Notes system.  The other role is systems admin (non-financial reporting systems) for corporate responsibility departments (I am employed by the consultant rather then the firms I work with). [quote user="Panda"]I'm working as a self employed person over here for a UK company, not much paperwork just the annual tax return but that's pretty straight forward involved and far simpler for my employer, you can also get other contracts of course which is a benefit. [/quote] I hope you don't mind me asking... what classification of self-employed are you and how much of your gross income do you end up with in your pocket? [quote user="Panda"] I can't really see a problem, just find an accountant get yourself registered get on with your life, where area are you going to live in and what age is your son, I'm here with my son too, we could meet up if you're nearby. [/quote] I will be living on the Normandy Coast - if you are near, that would be great.  My son is 10 - and absolutely bricking it :) [quote user="Panda"] EDIT:  Not that naive on the PAYE element, I did this for 18 months and no one seemed to care, then the UK gov paid all my tax back and said I had to register over here, so I did. [/quote] Really?  How were you covered health wise?  Did you worry about your son needing emergency medical treatment?  That's my main concern.  Plus I am an asthmatic and I have a repeat prescription for ventolin - but it's probably less hassle to buy that in the pharmacy.

Hi all, You lot have been fantastic in helping in other areas, so I thought I'd return for some more help.  It's a complex one I'm afraid (isn't it always?). Forgive the very specific nature of this enquiry but I am a lone parent and can't afford to spare much in the way of professional advice - hence my being here... in a "you never know who's looking and feeling generous" capacity. I am a UK national moving to France early June, just my son and I.  I had planned to continue working for my existing UK employers, from home, under the UK PAYE system (naive huh?).  Anyway, much research and many sleepless nights later my naivety is slowly vanishing. I already know that because I will be employed, and not in a seconded capacity, that I am not entitled to the E106 or the E101. That left me with two choices - to convince my employers of the benefits of retaining me as an employee and paying all the contributions, taxes and wading through whatever red tape went along with that - or them releasing my from my existing contractual obligations and me invoicing them for my work as a self-employed person. Since finding any benefits at all with which to convince my employers to maintain me as a salaried employee seem virtually nonexistent, it looks like the self-employed route is my only option.  Please feel free to disagree with that statement, bearing in mind that "a presence on the continent" probably won't cut me much slack. These are the negatives for my employers, as I see them - again, please feel free to correct me: 1.  They will have to pay around 45% of my gross income again, in French social security contributions 2.  I can contractually opt to be subject to UK employment law despite being a French resident, yet some French employment laws favouring the employee (maximum working week, leave, rest time etc.) can be legally used against them during a dispute. 3.  They will have to go through the registration process and obtain a siret in order to pay their contributions (whether they are obliged to go as far as setting up a French subsidiary - and paying the costs associated with that - I remain unsure of) 4.  Taxes - this is something no one has yet mentioned to me so again, I am unsure if my employers would be subject to any on my behalf.  Possibly not since a) as a lone parent working from home, this would give me certain tax breaks and b) I am not promoting, selling, importing or exporting and UK goods or services in or to France. The major benefit for me, by remaining an employee, is the obvious one of only having to pay around 22% in social security contributions. The way I see it, my employers would have to be mental to agree to all that.  Feel free to disagree at any point. So - self-employment. Having looked at all the many classifications of self-employment in France, and being totally mystified by most of them, I considered a portage salarial to start with.  I know I will 'lose' around 50% of my gross annual income if I take that route - but I'm a bit lost as to what else to do.  I certainly do not want to spend all my time off (what little I get) filling in paperwork.  Any advice on this too would be most welcome. I've bored myself typing all this out, so god knows what anyone else reading it is doing.  Snooze time?

Again, thanks to all for the input.  You've been a great help. I have since found a flat and am going to view and possibly sign on the 4th of April - great news.  Chessfou, thanks.  Will stick the links, adding to the ones you have already listed, below.  I'd like to add though that these are specifically sites I found which deal with private landlords and most if not all listings remove the agent from the picture.  http://www.kijiji.fr/ http://www.avendrealouer.fr/ http://www.arkadia.com/usa/ (do list French rentals) http://www.marche.fr/immobilier-location/ Cheers, P.

You're right, asking the agents themselves would be the best route.  I just didn't want to appear a "risk" in their eyes unless I had to.  As I say, I think I will more than adequately match other criteria - just not that.  I have since found some excellent sites to search for private lettings - would this be a good place to list the sites? ... I know some forums see a fine line between the giving of information and blatant promotion.  I just wanted to share my findings in case anyone found this thread through the search engines.  I'll await reply before I post any links.

Thanks to both you and spg for your help.  Can I just ask - this 3.3 x rent thing - is that what everyone looks for or just the agencies?  And does it apply to my wage before deductions (well over) or after (very borderline for the kind of properties I have been looking at)?  What I was more interested in is if the French agencies would be looking to UK data companies such as Equifax and Exprian to determine if I was eligable for a letting.  What you are implying, Chessfou, is that they don't... ? Thanks again.

Hi, I've been looking for some time now for good private lettings sites.  By that I mean that it lists private property rather than that listed by an estate agent, or the French equivalent.  I found a few sites but most list only very rural Normandy locations rather than town (or big village) areas.  Please does anyone know of any sites for landlords of French property?  I have already found vivastreet (for all the use it was), Kijiji and Annonces Jaunes so if you know of any others I'd very much appreciate you sharing your knowledge.  The route I've discovered works best is looking at classified or free-ad type sites, rather than ones dedicated to property. Also, does anyone here know if there is a standard in what French letting agents require of you?  I do not have a clever enough credit history to pass a check, sadly (long story involving divorce several years ago now - I shan't bore you with it) but I have rented my current flat in the UK for over 6 years and never ONCE been so much as a day late with the rent.  I can also supply guarantors in the form of my parents, also living in France, who are retired but have a steady pension income to the value of well over the average wage.  I am reasonably well-paid and fully employed (from home) and will continue to work for those employers when I have relocated to Normandy (preferably coastal but am also looking at Rouen/larger towns) - so have good employer references too.  I am the perfect tenant in all but my credit history (history being the key word) yet I know (because I have tried!) that I would fail the standard UK agent's credit check.  So if French agents have the same, narrow view of things there really is no point in looking at what lettings they have to offer.  Unless, of course, anyone can tell me different. All/any advice is very very welcomed. Thanks, Paula.

Hi, I am looking for a long-term let in France.  No pets, one child (10 years old) and will be working.  Must have broadband and be close to schools/town as I don't drive.  Will consider all areas within 2 hours train travel of Paris or, failing that, near an airport (may only have to visit every few months).  Parents live in Calvados region of Normandy and would ideally like to be close to them, but closer to Paris or even further South is an option I'd consider.  Ideally it will be at least part furnished, but will look at unfurnished too.  Have been on Guy-Hoquet's email list for a while now, with no great joy.  If you have anything coming up soon or even in next 12 months, please email me. Thanks, Paula. Contact details deleted by a moderator Contact the poster by email or PM please.