nomoss
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Posts posted by nomoss
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Thanks SD. It just seemed odd to me that the numéro de réception is not entered on the carte grise when it is required on the car's documents supplied for registration. Maybe there is some reason it should not be entered ? I read in one French blurb on the carte grise that the number may have some or all of the digits replaced by asterisks on some cartes grises.
Maybe their system(s) just wasn't set up previously to make the numéro de réception an obligatory field when entering the details.
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I have 4 vehicles in France. Two have similar Cartes Grises, issued before Dec '08, the first imported from Spain, the second bought here. The other two have newer model CG's, the first bought here in March 2010, the second imported in April 2010. All issued by the same Prefecture. Yes, I collect cars.
All the CG's have section (K), described as "Numéro de reception par type (si disponible)"
The three earliest CG's have nothing entered in this section, although the No de R is on the C de C for the car imported in 2008.
The latest CG, issued in April 2010, for an imported car, does have the No de R on its CG, corresponding to that on the C of C.
I assume the No de R is not on the CG of the cars purchased here because it was not on the previous CG, and they are not going to require a C of C for a car already registered here.
Perhaps the entering of the No de R on the CG became obligatory just recently, and that is the reason for nectarine's problems compared with a few months ago.
Does anyone else who imported a car into France have the Numéro de réception not showing on their CG?
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I'm wondering if it matters, from a safety point of view, which side the caravan's door is on?
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[quote user="AnOther"]It's not the same situation though. I was comparing someone who has left Spain lock stock and barrel never to return, euphemistically you, with someone else, George, who has not. Obviously if that is not your case and you do retain property or assets there for the authorities to potentially sequester then you may leave yourself open to risk.[/quote]
So your advice, in essence, is not to bother about possible liabilities you leave behind in an EEC country so long as you leave no assets there.
[quote user="AnOther"]Regarding returned registration documents, if you look up a known vehicle on the DVLA site it will only have the export marker if they have received the V5 back from France, Spain, or wherever, [/quote]
I am familiar with the DVLA Vehicle Enquiry site. (Your link doesn't work, by the way). Your statement is not really correct, but I'll leave you to work out why.
[quote user="AnOther"]but if you insist that despite this they would still pursue you for €57 then I happily bow to your knowledge of Spanish intransigence [;-)]
[/quote]I believe I qualified that to the principle that they would pursue debts which accumulated periodically when they reached a more substantial figure.
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AnOther
It’s a bit bizarre that you suggested originally that I should have left Spain without completing the formalities, but you call George a plonker for doing just that.
There were other factors and details I didn't mention, as the point was not what he did, but an illustration of the determination of the Spanish system to pursue unpaid debts to the State, even quite small ones. I have heard that this is because this often results in more important discoveries being unearthed, as people tend to be more careless about minor details. That's the story, anyway, and at worst a lot of money is recovered with little effort, as the system is virtually automatic. I guess the debt is allowed to increase until it becomes significant enough to merit some effort to recover it. Not what I want to leave behind me.
After some 25 years living there I could go on all day with stories of bank accounts, boats, houses being sequestered, sometimes for fairly insignificant debts, some experienced by friends or customers, some hearsay.
The physical location of the vehicle is irrelevant. If it is registered in Spain it becomes due for Road Tax every year until the registration is cancelled, even if it is registered in France without the export procedure being followed. I also strongly doubt that the paperwork is returned promptly, if at all, to the previous country of registration.
I think this thread has been hijacked into a discussion about Spain for too long.
Mainly because you made queries/suggestions about my leaving Spain. I didn’t give any detail originally as it was not relevant to a thread on French bureaucracy.
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In that case one should get the full amount for which one qualified from each country.
If your brain hadn't hurt so much you might have noticed the second paragraph [:)]
Each institution where you contributed will calculate the amount to be paid according to:
- its legislation (national pension)
- by adding together all working periods in all the state members, and calculating proportionally with the time spent in the state (Proportional or communitarian pension)
Of course each institution will retain the most advantageous amount after comparing the two computations.The last sentence could better read "the most advantageous amount for the claimant " – I did say it was a bit unclear.
So, in the case you ask about, assuming the second country is in the EEA :-
By the first computation you would get pension for 30 years from UK and for 15 years from the other country.
If 15 years were not enough to qualify in the other country, the period worked in UK would be taken into account there for the purpose of qualifying.
By the second computation you would get 30/45 of the full pension in UK, so the obviously higher amount from the first computation would be awarded there.
From the other country you would get 15/45 of full pension, which could be more or less than the first calculation, depending on the regulations for that country.
If it were less, then the normal amount for 15 years, as per computation 1 would be awarded.
Hope that doesn’t add to your brain problems [:D]
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Here is a description of how the calculation is made when you have pensions from two or more EEA countries.
http://www.easyexpat.com/en/faq/work/q61.htm
It's a bit unclear, and dated Jan 2008, but the calculation is the same as when I claimed some time back. I don't believe it has changed in the last 2 years.
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[quote user="AnOther"]I can't agree that the term 'fixer' implies anything illegal or underhand. In the Middle East for instance it was virtually impossible to run a business without one and it was virtually a full time job getting visas, driving licences, other permits etc. all off which were normal and necessary but horrendously time consuming for those who didn't know their way around the systems or whose time was better utilised working and earning their living.[/quote]
In my experience "Fixers" are people who transfer gratuities for services rendered to those in a position to make helpful decisions.
[quote user="AnOther"]Other than the Quittus tax certificate Prefectures do not require any export documentation and with free movement there is, in reality, no such thing, just the formalities of registering in your country of residence.[/quote]I know that. Unfortunately the officials in the Prefecture did not.
[quote user="AnOther"]Neither can a car be simultaneously registered as the original registration document is surrendered at the moment of applying for registration elsewhere and is eventually returned to the country of origin for their authorities to record the fact that it is no longer in their territory.[/quote]
I asked about this, and was told that the original documents are not returned, but kept by the Prefecture.
[quote user="AnOther"]I think that if you had left Spain completely without completing the formalities then the authorities would have had nowhere to send the tax bill (which you had paid for the year anyway), but even if not I doubt that they would tried to track you down for the sake of €57, and once they had been informed of it's registration in France, by receipt of the original registration document, they would have struck it off their list and that would have been the end of it.
[/quote]I receive a State Pension from Spain, so the police can easily get my details.
As for bothering to track me down, a friend moved back to UK from Spain, keeping an apartment there. He also sold his car, but the new owner did not register it, so it stayed in his name.
A couple of years later, in the absence of any bank accounts or other assets in his name (everything is tied together there via single ID number) his apartment was appropriated and sold at auction to pay for fines accumulated by the car. He did get the balance after the fines and administration charges were taken, but nowhere close to the value of the apartment, which he didn't want to sell in any case.
57€ plus surcharges, fines and surcharges for late payment, plus fines and surcharges on the unpaid fines and surcharges, with another 57€ becoming due each year, adds up pretty soon to an amount worth recovering.
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[quote user="AnOther"]The very fact that Gestors exist, fixers in many other languages, is a round condemnation of any system which requires such 'services' to manage what ought to be relatively routine matters.
[/quote]On second thoughts, Gestors are replaced in the UK by a mass of advisory bureaux, taxpayer funded, who try to sort out bureaucratic problems created by other taxpayer funded entities.
And I think the general connotation "Fixers" denotes a certain illegality of operation of same. Gestors are professional people who can offer advice and help to operate legally.
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[quote user="AnOther"]The very fact that Gestors exist, fixers in many other languages, is a round condemnation of any system which requires such 'services' to manage what ought to be relatively routine matters.[/quote]
I totally agree.But even UK has a mass of PFA's, for example, to guide people through a maze of regulations. What does that say about UK?
[quote user="AnOther"]What I wonder would have been the repercussions, if any, of just driving the car out of Spain without saying diddly squat to anybody. You would have still had all the original paperwork and I really don't think any prefecture in France would have cared a fig about where it had come from.
[/quote]I'll never know. The Prefecture might just have wanted the bit of paper which said the car had been exported from Spain, and to see "Exported" stamped on the documents, to ensure it was not simultaneously registered in two countries.
But the whole point was to cancel the Spanish registration, which would have been impossible once the Spanish "papers" had been retained by the Prefecture. Unlike France, one pays an annual road tax in Spain, which can only be cancelled if the car is declared sold, scrapped, or exported. The original "papers" are required to do this.
In the event, the car was not "un-registered", or at least not quickly enough for me not to be billed for road tax (by the local town of residence, 57.60€ in this case) nearly a year after I declared it exported.
But I am sure the fact that I produced all the stamped documents given to me by Trafico at the time I declared it exported sorted out the situation.
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To add to the above, though. The nice thing in Spain is that they have "Gestors", who deal with all official procedures and sort out problems on one's behalf, for reasonable fees, or for a monthly retainer when one is in business and needs advice and assistance regularly.
The good ones are well trained and qualified, and keep up with changes in the relevant laws. Some specialise in business, advise on legal changes, look after tax and all the other returns one has to make. They basically employ people to stand in line in government offices to save you doing so, but also have an intimate knowledge of how it all works (or should work).
After the car registration in France was completed I received a bill for this year's Road Tax for it in Spain. Turned out the registration there had still not been cancelled.
I simply turned over the paperwork to a gestor specialising in vehicle matters in Gerona, where the (only) Trafico office for the Province is situated, via a gestor in Roses, where we were at the time.
I assume the Roses gestor takes a cut, but after 2 months the registration is now cancelled, final bill €67 with IVA. A lot cheaper than dashing back and forth and queueing in Gerona.
Wish they had gestors in France!
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Over much of the last year I was trying to French register a Spanish car, which we owned and used there for 18 years. I had registered our Spanish VW camper here with no problems at all about a year earlier.
I had left the car in Spain until we finally sold up there. When I went to the Traffic Dept to declare its exportation they retained its registration certificate (Permiso de Circulacion), giving me an attestation in return, but let me keep its technical certificate (Ficha Technica) (there are 2 bits of paper for Spanish private vehicles). When I had exported the VW they returned both to me stamped “Transferecia Intercomunitario” or suchlike.
As this was different fom the previous time I decided to check with the Prefecture before forking out for a CT.
Altogether I made 4 visits to the Prefecture, which resulted in having to supply some unneccessary documents including a Quittus fiscal, a Bill of Sale, and duplicate copies of Spanish documents, which meant 2 round trips to Gerona plus many hours queueing in the Trafico offices there. Their response to my problems in France recalled a phrase containing the words “pot” “kettle” and “black”.
Each time I went to the Prefecture there were different people in the vehicles section, who had different requirements from the last bunch. They were not particularly unhelpful, just wong, unfortunately.
There were some longish pauses in my efforts, when I became too annoyed to continue and had to wait until my patience recovered sufficiently to waste my time trying again.
Eventually it seemed everything was in order, so I took the car for its CT, but the station wouldn’t accept the papers the Prefecture did. Back to the Prefecture.
FINALLY, I managed to get the same person who last OKayed the dossier. He didn’t know what to do, so sent me upsatirs to see the boss.
She sifted through the mass of papers I had accumulated, removed several of them, including the Quittus, remarking “That’s not required”, not responding at all when I mentioned that each had been required by her staff downstairs. She also said the procedure in Spain had changed recently (by way of an excuse, I suppose).
Eventually she pronounced that there was no reason for the CT to be refused, and suggested I use a different CT station. I told her that was not convenient, and could she possibly phone my local one.
She agreed a bit reluctantly to phone the CT station. We had already been some time in her office and she was probably busy. I don’t know who replied, but I guess they argued the point, as the lady launched into a tirade about people who didn’t know their jobs, it was not their job to check documents, just to check the vehicle, and told whoever it was to have their management call her.
Back at the CT station next day, all smiles. I said that I thought the papers were OK now. The guy looked at them, same papers as before, less a few. “Ah, I didn’t notice that one” he said, pointing to one at random. I suppose he had to make some excuse.
I don’t find a lot of difference with bureaucracy in France, Spain or UK. Most problems are not due to grumpiness or officialdom itself, but to the staffs’ lack of knowledge, training, interest and enthusiasm. A lady in Swansea recently asked me if I’d changed a car’s engine, or its cc. (sic)
Having lived in places where the bureaucracy makes France’s seem like paradise, it doesn’t bother me here more than very briefly. I just have to think back to when it really affected my life.
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It was on BBC news tonight - or was it maybe France 24 or Aljazeera....? We watch them for a slightly different coverage of events.
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[quote user="Gluestick"]
I'm totally surprised at the hostile and anti-French feeling expressed earlier in this thread by some.
De Gaulle didn't "Run Away": nor were the French happy at the concept of "Capitulation". De Gaulle, unlike Petain and his shambles of a government, De Gaulle was a true patriot and was determined to continue the fight.
The famous London broadcast was simply a precursor: De Gaulle and his Free French Forces gradually re-captured all French colonies.
Not only as an acting Brigadier General did De Gaulle lead one of the only successful counter attacks (Armoured) against the German army in 1940, he had enjoyed an illustrious career and service record in WWI and his seminal treatise on armoured warfare and tanks was considered the textbook: so much so that the German army slavishly copied his military strategies therein espoused.
What must be remembered, was the reality that France lost the cream of its young men in WWI:
French servicemen killed and injured 6.1 Million:
British (And empire) ditto 3.1 Million:
It was also economically devestated by the Great War (Despite the promised reparations under the Versailles Treaty): and suffered useless self-serving politicians up to and including Petain and Pierre Leval.
As WW II ran to its conclusion, De Gaulle led the French forces and was determined France would be recognised in the final outcomes: thanks to his energy and determination, for example, when Berlin was divided and under the Four Power Agreement, France was one of those powers.
Whilst forming part of the immediate post war government, De Gaulle soon resigned: luckily for France and Europe, however, he was soon persauded to return.
If not then with the backbiting and intrique, France would probably have become a communist state.
It is thanks to De Gaulle that France enjoys a now stable Fifth Republic: and that it has endured for so long: the third and fourth failing in political chaos very quickly.
It is also because of De Gaulle that France now enjoys stable infrastructure and economic success: conspicuous by their absence in 1958.
This man was a real and true "Son of France" and a patriot: and at least if nothing else, he possessed immense dignity and presence; as did his wife.
Somewhat different from the midget poseur and his bed-hopping wife who now occupy the Elyse..............
Some respect is deserved for one's host country: rather than cynical sniping and the repition of mythical halftruths and calumnies.
[/quote]
Hear! hear!
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[quote user="NormanH"]The 'twist' in this thread was yours when you diverted my point about the Battle of Waterloo into a discussion if the Resistance, as if you have some sort of moral superiority because you have driven past a few memorials.
The fact is that the two events happened on the same day, and yet that co-incidence gets hardly a mention.
No doubt you don't think that Waterloo is worth remembering?
[/quote]Would you really expect the French to celebrate the Battle of Waterloo?
I don't think many Brits would celebrate the Battle of Yorktown, although the French might like to.
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I would add a suggestion to take lots of photographs of the position of all vehicles, any tyre marks, from near and further away, and closeups of damage to all vehicles.
This made all the difference when I was hit almost head-on, after I had come to a stop, angled part way into a field entrance - nowhere else to go - by a young gentlemen in a big hurry in a narrow lane in Cornwall. The insurance companies were apparently in the habit of settling 50/50 in these circumstances, but my pictures made a huge difference. I was fully compensated and did not lose my NCB.
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Why will he be £1000 out of pocket if they are going to claim against his insurance company? Surely his car's damage is covered by his insurance company, who will also deal with the claim being made against them for the post vehicle damage.
Or does he have only third party cover and no legal assistance?
He should make sure he reports the accident to the gendarmerie before he leaves.
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UK solicitors are having problems with the burden of their obligations to comply with the money laundering regulations, the costs this incurs, the penalties if they get it wrong, and investigations into what they considered routine transactions they made, where they simply accepted money from a high street bank account.
Apparently many feel that the demands being made on them are unreasonable, so I am not surprised they are loth to become involved in a transaction outside the UK.
It seems that despite whatever one thinks about banks, no-one has any choice but to use them, and pay their exchange and transfer charges.
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[quote user="Russethouse"]
I think most of the replies to this thread indicate that people realise there is a problem, all be it a man made one. In this day and age surely we need to look for the most cost efficient way of dealing with it effectively and as humanely as we can...maybe trapping and killing a few isn't the efficient or long term answer.
Rats are a different problem as I know to my cost - £150 and counting as it happens......but again thoughtless humans leaving scraps around in gardens or on the compost heap don't help......sadly there is never just one rat [:(]
Christine, I've never heard of a Fox sanctuary although I believe that Tiggywinkles cares for fox road accident victims and if possible they try and return them to the area where they were found
[/quote]In what way are rats a different problem, please? What was the £150 for?
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I would recommend you check it out with your Notaire, as rules are changing all the time.
We just sold a property in Spain, the buyers were French. They wanted to pay us with a cashiers cheque drawn on their French bank, which was quite acceptable for ourselves.
BUT, under new money laundering regulations, they had to first transfer money to a Spanish bank, then get a cashiers cheque from there, together with a certificate for the Notary stating the origin of the money and that the cheque was issued for the purchase of property.
When I paid the cheque into my Spanish bank I stated where the money originated, as is usually required, but the cashier replied that she already knew, as it was on the computer.
Just possible that French property sales now have similar rules.
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I used Pacifica when we first moved to France, as it was the easiest way at the time, via our bank (Credit Agricole) until I found that Groupama offered the same cover for less than 2/3 of what Pacifica were charging us.
Also, Groupama have an office just down the road, who are very helpful, whereas CA don't want to know about anything once they have sold the policy, and just tell one to contact Pacifica.
I don't know about other areas, but Groupama have a strong presence around here, with offices in several very small towns.
They also throw in Protection Juridique for no extra charge, for which CA charged an extra 60€ pa.
A claim for storm damage early last year was paid in full, a week after we sent them the dévis, and we are currently using the PJ to claim for expenses incurred when our car broke down after filling up from a Super 95 pump, whose tank had been accidentally filled with diesel. This is taking rather longer, as the supermarket concerned (Intermarché at Colayrac saint Cirq, N of Agen) is not responding promptly.
EDIT: Sorry, I didn't read your post properly. As far as I know, our local Groupama office don't have anyone who speaks English. (But neither does the bank). I'm afraid I didn't think of that as being neccessary when we moved here.
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[quote user="pachapapa"] I would presume that the Lone Star State boys will be planning actions for damages due to the consequential damages derived from the halt to their operations caused by BRITISH petroleum.[/quote]
Why do you keep writing BRITISH in caps - does your caps lock stick due to your anger?
Anyway, the company is called "BP" and is multinational, not British, so please get your facts correct.
If you want to go back into the company's history, you could write IRANIAN.
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From the pointy shovels it could be France, but no berets. The Spanish love blue overalls, but I haven't seen bib-front ones there, so I'll go for Germany.
medical complaints in France
in Health
Posted
Hello Swissie,
Regarding help with legal procedures and costs, does your friend have Defense Juridique as part of his house insurance policy?
Recently my car was immobilised quite far from home, because a service station's petrol tanks had been accidentally filled with diesel, causing us a great deal of expense and inconvenience.
I had not opted for DJ on my car's cover, but on reading through our house policy (Groupama) I found it seemed to be covered, under Protection Juridique, La Qualité de Consommateur de l'Assuré, "Nous guarantissons les litiges concernant;" ,"Les biens:", and "Les services" etc.
I took all the documentataion to my local Groupama office, the car was inspected and discussed with an expert, and I received a cheque for the full amount of my claim for all expenses 3 months later.
Although this is a completely different case, in my policy document, under "Les services" is "il s'agit des litiges survenant avec des professionnels ou des organismes de services publics ou privées......", and listed among other items is: "tous les établissements de soins ou de cure"
In the event your friend has any form of Defense Juridque included in any insurance policy he holds, it might be worth studying the conditions to see if there is any chance his claim is covered.