Frederic

Hello Jhc I hear what you say but at the moment we are very angry with our treatment by EDF and determined to at least try and do something. The previous owner did provide certified accounts before we bought the farm to prove that it was viable. The goat farm does not use heating but does have a milking machine and refrigeration on a large milk storage tank – the latter probably uses less electricity in the winter whilst the former should be about the same. Lighting can be more expensive in the darker winter but we use 38watt neon strip lights throughout. This is all the same as the previous owner. We believe that EDF have behaved badly and probably illegally and we are not ready to give in just yet. During our four years in France we have discovered that large organisations such as EDF have no respect for anyone who will not standup for themselves – and it doesn’t matter if your English, French, German, …… In dealing with these organisations you really need to know who they are responsible to. The advice we received from the Forum concerning the Mediator has been invaluable, so we will see what happens now!! Since corresponding with the Forum, we have decided to make two interim payments to EDF’s excessive schedule (which may help the mediation process and stop any power cut), and we have heard from the Deputy Mayor we wrote to and have a meeting for the end of the month (the earliest he can arrange, but he does seem to be on our side) So many thanks to everyone for your advice – we will post any news.

Hello Sunday Driver I don’t know why EDF stopped charging for a year and they won’t tell. In response to Nick Trollope, I was just trying to set a scenario that had nothing to do with goat farms but simply what EDF could do to a normal householder. I’m sorry if this confused the issue.

Hi Nick Trollope. Thanks for responding. I think your second paragraph explains EDF’s position exactly. But let me ask you, if your next bill from EDF was 4,000 Euro’s would you pay up or would you give EDF a call and ask for an explanation. And if you asked EDF for an explanation and they told you that a year ago they identified excessive consumption at you house, had now added all these excessive consumption charges together, and wanted immediate payment would you pay them? In such circumstances, may I assume that you would check you house for any possible explanation for this excessive power consumption, and if you failed to identify one would you ask EDF to send a technician to check their system? ….. and if a large EDF technical services van arrived to update all your EDF supply equipment a week before the technician arrived to confirm your EDF supply and metering were working perfectly would you feel satisfied? So now EDF knock on you door and say "well Nick, you know you used all this electricity so hand over a cheque for 4,000 Euro’s or we cut the power". What are you going to do?

Hi Ty Thanks for responding. The key issue is that we signed a contract with EDF in which they must provide an itemized statement every two months and take payment from our bank account on the day the invoice is due. EDF claim to have identified excessive consumption at our farm over a year ago and as a consequence have not sent invoices or taken any payment for over a year. They did not inform us of what they were doing but did continue to provide electricity. If we had not had so much work on our hands trying to run the goat farm we would have picked up on this much earlier. After a year of this excessive consumption, EDF decided to send all the accumulated invoices at the same time and to demand immediate payment. After a lot of telephone calls and letters, EDF agreed to send a technician to check our meter and get a reading – but only after EDF had completed updates to the line and equipment. Since EDF have updated the line and equipment we do not know if the original readings were correct or not – we do know that since the work our consumption has fallen to a more normal level. EDF now wants us to pay 511 euro’s per month, plus interest, which is to heavy for our farm, or they will cut the power. By not providing invoices etc., EDF has broken its own contract; by not informing us of the sudden and continued appearance of excessive consumption EDF should bear some responsibility for the cost; and by updating the line and equipment before a meter check could be done EDF has ensured that we can never prove that an electrical fault was responsible for the high consumption and not our farm. Despite all this, we have only asked EDF for a reasonable repayment schedule.

Hi Tony Thanks for responding. You have to remember that an Advocat does not come free. There is a balance between the costs involved, i.e., the cost of legal representation versus the amount being demanded by EDF. Everyone we have spoken to has some story to tell about EDF, so the question here is - has anyone come accross a similar situation and does anyone know who EDF is responsable to? Do you know if its possible to take legal action against EDF? Thanks

In October 2004 we bought a goat farm in the South of France as an ‘on-going’ concern. We signed a contract with EDF pro to supply electricity to the farm because the previous owner had used this facility. Our contract states that we will get an itemized bill every two months and with our standing order at the bank the bill will be automatically paid on the correct date. Everything appeared to go well during the first few months and with 250 goats to look after we soon forgot about EDF, safe in the knowledge that the regular bills would warn us of any problems and the automatic payment from our bank would prevent any worries. We were therefore stunned to get a single envelope from EDF in April 2006 containing six bills, all with the same date in April 2006, and totaling almost 4,000 Euro’s. We called EDF but got nowhere because they insisted that this was just the state of our account at that time. We called the previous owner of the exploitation who informed us that EDF’s charges are more than twice what he paid for the same period in the preceding year. Our counselor from the MSA (Agricultural Social Security) called EDF and managed to discover the following. In April 2005, EDF noted an excessive increase in demand for electricity at our farm and consequently suspended our account. In effect, this meant they stopped sending bills and stopped taking automatic payments from our bank account, until April 2006 when they decided to accumulated the outstanding bills and demand immediate payment. They did not feel the need to tell us of the problem! Our MSA counselor got EDF to agree a meeting at the farm to discuss the problem and in the interim we were advised to cancel our standing order. EDF never arrived and we were to make two further meetings at which they failed to arrive. Looking back to April 2005, we remembered a very heavy fall of snow that brought down the power lines and cut electricity to the farm for four days – could this be the source of the excessive consumption? EDF listened to our explanation and agreed to send a technician to check our meter and get a new reading. The week before the technician was due to arrive we received two notifications from EDF stating that short interruptions of power would be experienced since they were updating the lines and equipment supplying our farm to improve the quality of service. The technician arrived the following week and reported that everything was working correctly. We again spoke to EDF asking to pay the outstanding amount by installment but got a letter back stating that they would only accept a minimum of 511 Euro’s per month plus 150 Euro’s interest. We would also need to make sure that we were up to date with our current electricity charges. We paid the first 511 Euro’s but wrote to EDF stating that the repayment schedule was to high and that our farm could not sustain such excessive payments. We explained that by its actions, EDF had concealed from us the existence of the problem and by refusing to provide bills or to take payments at the time they were due, EDF had actually created this problem. We sent a copy of this letter, recorded delivery, to the head office of EDF in Paris and got a response promising an enquiry. The response letter had a name and signature but did not contain any reference numbers. We next got a letter from EDF stating that they were going to cut the power to our farm because we had not made our second payment of 511 Euro’s. Our MSA counselor then suggested that we contact the Consumers Association who would speak to EDF on our behalf. The Consumer Association spoke to EDF, got them to suspend the disconnection and to agree to a meeting at our farm to discuss the matter. EDF never arrived for the meeting. The Consumer Association then wrote to EDF to help find a solution to the problem but EDF subsequently refused to acknowledge the existence of this letter. The Consumer Association again spoke to EDF to demand an explanation but were told that our dossier did not exist and they could not speak to anyone in authority. The Consumer Association have now said that whilst EDF refuses to acknowledge our dossier, there is nothing more they can do. They recommend contacting the deputy mayor of a large town near to us, and under whose influence the area appears to be. Whilst preparing a letter for the Deputy Mayor, we received a telephone call from EDF stating that if we do not make all our outstanding payments of 511 Euro’s they will disconnect our farm next week. They are now saying that they have no record of our letter to their Paris office (despite that fact that we have the recorded delivery slip) or of the response promising an enquiry. They also say that no meetings could have been arranged at our farm because EDF only discuss problems of this type over the phone. As a final blow, EDF informed us that due to our excessive consumption, they are going to triple our connection charges adding a further 300 Euro’s to our account. We gave a letter to the Deputy Mayor’s secretary last Thursday but were told that he is a very busy man with many urgent problems to deal with, however, he may be able to meet with us next week. I would also like to add that we are completely up to date with our current EDF payments and that since the line has been improved to the farm, our actual consumption appears to have fallen below that used by the previous owner. So what can we do? What is the legal position with EDF? Who can we contact to help deal with EDF.

Can anyone help? I want to buy a small tractor via ebay and got the following two offers with different payment methods. Does anyone have any experience of either or any idea of risks. Other than books from Amazon.co.uk, I have no experience of larger expensive items. The best deal is with the tractor in Italy - but can Escrow really offer the service suggested? Sale 1 - Tractor in Sweden You will send the funds to eBay . After they will receive the amount will give me the ok for shipping. When you'll receive the item you'll have 3 days for testing. If it's ok then they will release the money to me. Sale 2 - Tractor in Italy I will tell you the only way that I want to make this deal: We will use escrow-europa as a insurance company and for our protection.You will have to wire the money to the escrow-europa agent and they will keep your money until when you will receive and verify the tractor.Anything is wrong with the tractor, you will receive your money back. I will ship the tractor in same day when i`ll receive the confirmation from escrow-europa that you made the payment and after that you will receive the #Tracking Number. You will send first 1,900 EUR (Down Payment) on escrow-europa agent details and give the details to Escrow-Europa. Please let me know if you want to make this deal and I will tell you more. If you want I can put escrow-europa to contact you but you will have to give me your full name and address for the shipping and for escrow-europa.

[quote]Well I am very sorry about the grief you have had but I do feel you have rather bought this on yourself. Firstly you appear never to have done any serious homework otherwise you would be aware that n...[/quote] Hello Quillan In buying a farm in France its not just immobilier’s or property owners you have to deal with, it’s the Chambre d’Agriculture, ADASEA, - the need to have a five year plan approved, applying for the primes etc. Anyone who thinks they can move to France, buy a farm through an immobilier and raise happy cows has clearly not done any homework. You will have to deal with numerous French departments who all act autonomously and who don’t necessarily agree with each other. Two years ago we decided that we really must have some help and we picked someone from a very limited field of expertise who appeared to have a good reputation. Yes, we did meet a couple of his clients and nobody said anything bad (I don’t know if the laws on naming and shaming would have applied). Our agent was charming, plausible, very quick to think on his feet when confronted. In the early days at least, he could always pass off problems as being due to the administration; the fact that French agricultural officials always seemed to be on holiday, they had long lunch breaks and never ever returned your calls. You always had to go to their office to see them, even for a seemingly trivial matter and just because you had an appointment, it didn’t necessarily mean they would be there. It was quite easy for him to hide behind all this and retain our confidence. You clearly have no idea of the processes involved and this is probably my fault for not including a full fifty page exposé. I just don’t think anyone would have the time or patience to read it all. You really have to go through it to even have a semblance of hope of understanding any of it. I know that things have gone very wrong and both my family and I will have to suffer the consequences. But before you get too sanctimonious and heap to much praise upon your good business sense, just try and remember that you didn’t go through it and so you don’t actually know what you would have done. Despite the posting that I and others have made on this site you appear to be suggesting that we gave all our money to a man in a pub who promised the earth. YOU CLEARLY DON’T UNDERSTAND HOW CON MEN WORK. So take care Administrator Quillan, you may just be their next victim.

I have decided to put together a letter, along the lines expressed in my original e-mail, and send it to my insurers asking them if they are able to accept any Civil Liability for events. If they agree, it may be that, on balance, the farmer may have a claim. If they refuse, I can forever say that a French Insurance company refused to pay because they considered there was no evidence to substantiate any claim. Any comments, suggestions etc,. Many thanks to anyone who may be able to offer an opinion.

I have a large Pyrenean Mountain dog, (Patu), who is normally very gentle and has not caused anyone any problems. The other morning my neighbor, a local farmer, came to see me because his young cows had escaped from their fencing and run wild across the road and nearby fields. This is not the first time they have escaped and on previous occasions I have offered to help him round them up. On this occasion, however, one of the baby cows appears to have broken its leg. He told me he is sure that my dog must have got under the barbed wire fencing and chased the baby cows, forcing them to jump the fence and as a consequence one has broken its leg. Despite the very close proximity of the baby cows to the farmhouse and buildings, nobody saw anything and no one heard anything. He did, however, show me some dog hair on the barbed wire that he seemed convinced is from my dog. (At the moment my dog is molting severely due to the summer heat so his hair is everywhere). I was very dubious that my dog was responsible but suggested that we let my insurance company decide on the evidence (Groupama). The farmer got very agitated, informed me of the high cost of vets bills and the fact he and his family had to eat. He stated that we should simply complete the claim form and he would be paid. I believe that he has visited the Mairie to make all sorts of unfounded allegations about my dog. We got a visit from a very pleasant Gendarme who didnt even ask for any papers; he seemed largely disinterested in evidence but appeared to feel that it was a simple matter of accepting liability so that our insurance would pay. Obviously, if we stand our ground we may be subject to a certain amount of ill feeling, which may escalate into serious problems. Has anyone come across a similar situation or have any advice to offer?

Does anyone know the minimum age a young boy can ride his mobylette on the public roads? Does anyone know the minimum age a young boy can drive a tractor on the public roads? Is it possible to get underage insurance for boys in event of accidents? Thanks for any help you can offer.

Have you ever thought of crossing the Pyrenees through Andorra? We did this a couple of years ago on our way to Spain. It does, however, take a lot longer and the roads can be steep. What you gain is perhaps the most spectacular views of the Pyrrenees mountains you will ever see. Andorra itself can get a bit crowded during the summer months but its VAT free so you can stock up at a very good price. There are customs posts on both the French and Spanish sides but they have always seemed generally disinterested. If you have time on your hands and a real sense of adventure I can recommend it. Good luck

Hello John W Your email got scrambled so I cannot respond direct. Yes it looks like the same agent and yes I will try and help you. Please send email with your contact details again.

Hi We have a small apartment with underfloor electric heating which costs us about 200 Euros per month during the colder weather.

Two years ago we signed a contact with a bilingual land agent who would help us find a farm in France. The initial fee was 500 with a further charge of 4,500 once we bought a property. We paid the first 500 and received a list of suitable farms to visit with the agent in France. We agreed to meet him at one of his former successful installations where we heard lots of wonderful things about him and a dire warning of what could happen if we didn't use his services. We were invited to stay the night but presented with a bill for 50 in the morning. We paid all his expenses but discovered that many of the farms on the list weren't available. We visited our favourite farm only to discover that it wasn't even for sale. The agent called us several weeks later to say that we could come to an attractive joint investment agreement with the owner of the farm. He demanded a further 500 and his expenses for a second visit. We again discovered that his information was incorrect; the farm owner had financial problems and the local Chambre d'Agriculture were not happy about any association. The agent was to contact us again with the news that the local Chambre d'Agriculture was happy for us to form a Farm Company (Gaec) with the farm owner and that this would protect our investment in the farm. The agent had also found a nearby Chalet for us to buy with some land to get us started. We accepted his advice and sold our home and possessions in England to start a new life in France. A few days before we were due to leave the agent called again to demand his full fee of 4,500 which would apparently ensure he was at hand to complete our installation on the farm. We paid the fee. We arrived in France to discover that the Chalet was not for sale and that the Farm owner could not form a farm company because she was involved in Litigation over debts. Over the past two years we have suffered a catalogue of disasters with this agent and as a consequence have lost almost all of our money. We have not found a farm and currently live in rented accommodation in France. We have managed to recover about two thirds of the 4,500 installation fee, but the agent has now decided to abandon us. In desperation we did write and agree to end the relationship if he repaid the outstanding balance but we have heard nothing. We have since spoken to a few others who have had a similar experience with this agent; nobody knows what to do and there is a general reluctance to be the whistleblower. The agent appears to be self employed and does not appear to hold membership to any professional body or organisation that would in anyway influence the manner in which he conducts business. Has anybody else come across a similar situation or have any ideas what to do.?

Our first child was born in England whilst the second will arrive next month in France. In England vaccines are not compulsory but is this true in France? I believe that the previous obligatoire vaccine for Tuberculosis (BCG)is nolonger obligatoire (as of the end of last year). Please note that this is not a debate on vaccines, just what are my rights as the parent of a new child born in France.