Martin963

Apart from all the excellent advice offered above,  take a look at http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/465511/ShowPost.aspx if you haven't already done so. Then feel free to post any further queries...

Most modern DTT (freeview) boxes originating in the UK are OK for France - check that it can cope with 2k demodulation as well as 8k. The old OnDigital boxes generally can't cope with the French system.   Coverage in France is still only 50% of the population.

Thanks Will.  I do hope you will keep us up to date - please;  expertise in fields like this is hard to come by and I'm sure I'm not the only one to appreciate your comments over the years.

My pack crashed through the letter box yesterday too and my understanding of the situation is as robbie34 describes.   As far as I can see one is losing one's right to vote (because one will no longer have shares in the company) but £1 per share in compensation doesn't seem too bad (maybe I'm being naive here). The worry is that the new company (which seems more of a merger than a takeover..?) will divest itself of ferries pretty quickly in which case the continuing "scheme" might become pretty useless.. All seems very sad that a company can manage to do so badly running a service over what has often been described as the world's most expensive stretch of water (as far as ferry charges are concerned).  Personally it seems to me that P&O Ferries lost the will to live some years ago,  if you up the prices on the Le Havre route by 15% a year,  then put them up overnight by 40% you probably don't really believe you'll retain many customers do you?   I do miss that route but even from Devon itbecame far cheaper to go round via Dover,  and nicer (now we do it) for the cats, overall. Perhaps Will TC could advise us (me certainly please) as to what it all means in PRACTICAL terms...?

All good advice.   My pennyworths would be to try to borrow a digital receiver from someone who already has it set up for the BBC and ITV and use that for yourdish installation (getting the signal indicators up on a TV screen near the dish). Certainly if I had started my experiences of dish aligning using a Sky box I'd probably not have gone on,  they are truly awful boxes for this purpose (deliberately so to stop you playing with them on non-Murdoch programmes!). 

As gyn-paul says,  sounds like the cable or perhaps the aerial having deteriorated.   Certainly if you don't get cracking analogue pictures you will be wasting your time with a TNT box, as they are much more vulnerable to weak signals;  unlike analogue where you still get a snowy picture with a weak signal,  TNT just stops dead in its tracks if the signal drops below a certain critical threshold. Get the cabling checked out,  if there is an signal amplifier it may have blown (perhaps in a thunderstorm).   A first step is to draw a map of how the cabling goes from aerial to TV;  generally a splitter is used (perhaps with an amplifier) and cables run form the splitter to individual rooms.   Doesn't sound as though they've done that in your house, so it might be better to start from scratch with new cabling.  But it is important to check the aerial itself is picking up a good signal;  no amount of improved wiring or amplification will improve an underperforming aerial.

Paul There is one dish called a Visiosat Bisat Generation (see www.surpin.com) which allows a big angular sweep,  but even that (as far as I can see) doesn't bridge the 28 E to 5 W divide.  Laters:  there is (I've just noticed http://surpinsat.com/actualite/vega.htm) another that looks as though it can see every corner of the heavens,  but I don't know how easy it would be to set up. So motorised or two discretes would probably be the best advice I'm afraid,  as Fridgeman has already said Even laters:  I've just seen the price on the Vega,  WOW!.  

Just one other thought that would give you a vague indication of signal strength:   what sort of signal do you get off Bouliac on FM (89.7/93.5/97.7 MHz).   Often this is NOT a good indication of likely TNT signal,  but in the case of Bouliac the FM transmitters are quite low powered for a transmission site of its importance (5 kW).   If you get strong signals on a radio on those frequencies even with the aerial down that would be a good indication.   Maisonnay by contrast has very high power FM transmitters (200 kW) and so even if you got those well it wouldn't indicate that TNT would be reliable. 

My wife would be right there with you on the least number of wires and boxes.   Sadly (from her point of view) there isn't an easy solution if one wants the full - or even a basic - range of programmes in two languages....    At least that's what I tell her every time a new dish goes up or another hole is drilled for a cable. And things move so fast that what is the best advice today may be outdated soon afterwards.   It would also really help if the Conseil Superieur Audiovisuel got a grip on the situation but I don't think that's going to happen.

You can definitely get TF1 in ANALOGUE on AB3.   In SECAM colour.   It seems likely that this will be for the next five years as the network of terrestrial UHF transmitters rely on this signal in the event of the national microwave distribution system failing. The worry about things being temporary concerns the DIGITAL multiplex carrying France Televisions on the same satellite.   This is "visible" at the moment because the transponder concerned is not being used to its full capacity when compared to the two other transponders carrying the other TNT feeds.  If and when the sixth TNT multiplex goes on air they may combine these extra programmes onto the satellite transponder at present carrying France Televisions using the same processing technique that prevents us watching the other TNT programmes. Having said that with every month that goes by, more and more French people are using this FTA France Televisions service and there would be quite a fuss if they disappeared,  particularly as the reason for using the compression technique is entirely economic.... Finally,  nothing in French Broadcasting is ever for sure.   So whilst I (and others) may make an informed guess that the analogues will be there for a good while don't risk your money just because I say so.   Please.

For a lot of folk a motorised dish is a good solution. The reason we don't use them (and clutter our UK garden with 6 dishes and our French one with 4) is twofold: We have 2 Sly boxes,  and they ideally should be parked on Astra 2 overnight in order to be kept updated.   Whilst you can do the updates manually it is somewhat annoying to find one morning that the box no longer works properly because the dish has been pointing the wrong way on the critical night. We also often need to have access to two different satellites simultaneously.  We use Astra 2 a lot for radio listening,  both in France (obviously) and also in the UK (less obviously,  but I cannot abide the heavy dynamics compression and general "processing" on FM (including on BBC radio)).   It is a pain to have to choose one satellite in preference to another because there is only one direction in which you can point a motorised dish.   So we have several receivers, several cables,  and two rooms for viewing/listening.   By using dual LNB's it's possible to listen or view pretty much any major satellite in either room as the fancy takes either of us.    OK it's not ideal for the non-technical but it suits us. But if a motorised system "spins your dish" then go for it.

You're too kind!.   Seriously,  it makes up for the handful of people who ask for a bit of help,  and from whom nothing further is ever heard.   Feedback is nice,  not so much because one is angling for thanks,  but more to check whether the advice was correct. But mostly people are great in this respect....

@ paw.  The UK stuff (BBC etc) is on Astra 2 - 28.2 deg east.   The French stuff is all over the place,  13 deg E,  19 deg E,  5 deg W.   You can get dishes (specialist) that cover about 25 deg arc,  but they are quite expensive and fiddly to set up.   You can get 2 satellites on 1 dish if they are only about 10 deg apart and you use an 80 cm dish with an extra LNB support,  but 28 deg E is so far over that really it's simpler to rig two dishes.

@  Fridgeman.  Re your remarks about TPS -  you naughty chappie you for suggesting anything like that. Seriously though,  the French authorities are thought to take a much stricter line on that sort of thing than the UK. And for the rest of you who don't know what's being suggested here,  tant mieux!

@  Fridgeman:  Presumably your'e watching the analogue versions of TF1 and M6 on AB3....?   If you're getting them digitally I'd be EXTREMELY interested to know as I'm waiting for a receiver to go on sale to the public that will get them (as opposed to France Televisions). But you are of course right,  there are some FTA French on Hotbird.

It's TF1 and M6 that are not viewable digitally on Atlantic Bird 3;  (annoyingly they are in fact there but in a form (DVB-S2) for which receivers for the mass market are not currently readily available).   The public service (France Televisions) are readily available digitally on AB3 but if they too opt for DVB-S2 then one would of course lose them. Not all areas of France (particularly rural ones) are covered by France 5/Arte and M6 on the UHF network.   The transmitters are normally lower powered than for the main three channels,  and a lot of relays are not equipped at all (which is why people use AB3 analogue satellite). As I said elsewhere,  this massive confusion in the situation is a result of the toothless and spineless CSA and its inability to regulate carriage of channels in a manner convenient for France and the French.

Course some of this is only informed guesswork,  but option 3) is likely to be around for five years;  TDF's analogue network of terrestrial transmitters relies on this feed in the event of failure of the main distribution system (via microwave).    Which is why it's maintained to a very high standard. It's probably the digital feed of publically-funded TV channels on Atlantic Bird 3 that is more vulnerable (to a switch to DVB-S2) although I've read elsewhere that suitable receivers are beginning to appear for this too.   But for the moment that's not a safe investment even if you could actually find one. It really is a casse-tete,  and a shame that the French authorities (via the CSA) haven't made it obligatory that the TNT programmes are duplicated on satellite,  which would have solved the problem.

Sorry babnik, it hadn't occurred to me that you were "starting from scratch". It all depends on what one wants,  which channels are on which system,  and whether or not one is prepared to pay a sub,  but leaving all those aside:   from a technical point of view it is nearly always easier to do a reliable self install of satellite than UHF TV.   The experience of DTT in the UK - and from what one gathers in France where a more robust system is in use for TNT - is that you really need to deliver a cracking signal to a TNT/DTT box before it does its stuff reliably.   This means getting the aerial high with all that that entails,  whereas a satellite dish will work on the ground reliably in almost all circumstances. There is hope for TNT/DTT;  when the analogue transmitters are switched off there is going to be a substantial increase in transmitter power which will help.  But I think the advice must always be at present - don't rely on getting TNT unless someone living very close by is already getting it reliably,  or unless you are close to a transmitter.  Advice that you have already worked out by the look of it. Try the Mayor though,  I wonder if he/she will know what you are talking about?

This isn't easy,  but if you can identify which transmitter you presently receive your UHF signals from that is a start. In other words if you receive a very good picture (no snow,  no shadows) at present,  and if you can be certain it comes from Maisonnay (Niort) or Bouliac (Bordeaux) then you are likely to be able to get TNT. The problem is that you might be watching an analogue relay at the moment with an aerial orientated on that relay which would not in its current form be suitable for TNT.   And if you are watching a relay it's probably because you don't get an adequate signal from Maisonnay or Bouliac in your area. If your TV is the sort that tells you which frequency or channel number it is tuned to for each programme at the moment, that would tell you which transmitter you are using. Niort is on ch's 22/25/28 for the main analogue programmes,  and Bordeaux is on ch's 57/60/63.   If you can identify the channel numbers on your TV at present then you should be able to eliminate or confirm these two.  If the channel numbers are different post them here and we'll try and identify which relay it is,  although I suppose it's only of academic interest... Have you tried going through the process that starts at http://www.espace-numerique.fr/?current=5022 It is a bit of a rigmarole but it should allow you to select your village for an idea of whether a TNT signal is present.  

Moving a dish:  in your case you'd be moving from a satellite "hovering" above the equator 19 degrees east of the Greenwich longditude (I hope I'm right and it is long not lat here!) to another one 28 degrees east of the Greenwich line.   In practice that means loosening the bolts and turning the dish (as viewed from behind) to the left so that the LNB moves about 8 cms.  You then tip the whole dish down a bit so that the LNB drops about 1 cm. Easy? Well no because you either need to get a signal meter up there with you or watch the signal meters in the menus on your receiver via a TV!   Not easy when you are already clinging on to the chimney.   And those measurements are very very rough as I've never had a ruler with me at the time! The first time you do a dish it takes for ever,  after about five experiences you develop a sort of 6th sense as to how it should "look" and it can be aligned in a few minutes. Personally - given what we now know about you - I'd go and buy a FTA digital receiver and dish as a package (often €99 in les grandes surfaces - you may need to buy the fixing bracket separately) and find somewhere to fix it near the ground,  then align it on Astra 2.   Watch out for trees though in a SSE direction.   Or if you can find a good installer get him to move the existing dish, explaining you want to receive Astra 2 at 28.2 deg east. Please come back for more if necessary! Incidentally let's hope your existing aerial is up to the job;  field strengths at UHF in France are often lower than what we're used to in the UK;  most of the original high power transmitters had their in-service powers halved or thereabouts in the 90's as the transmission authority decided that modern receivers could cope with the reduction - which obviously cut the electricity bill for transmission.   In a lot of areas the aerial really needs to be in tip top form to get decent pics;  we're amazed at what some of our French neighbours put up with in terms of picture degradation,  and how many mainly use analogue satellite as a result.   If you're in a good reception area there isn't a problem, but miles from a transmitter it may be worth being aware of the problem.

No probs.  And thanks for the thanks,  it would be nice if everyone on the forum came back like that;  many don't bother.

How right you are.  Our four dishes in France are all near the ground and it makes life much easier (particularly for an inveterate fiddler like me!). But we do have a cotoneaster and a fig tree which compete with the dishes for clear access to the southern skies.  Every year I am sent out in the pouring rain when our BBC pictures fail as a result of branches weighed down by the droplets,  normally it seems to happen when my wife is trying to watch Gardeners World, so I prune for real in the wet while she watches the professionals doing it properly!.

It could be a lot of things,  even a mains spike may have crashed the software. A common time for it to happen is after a software download (they happen under the command of Sky if you have a Skybox- you don't normally notice anything),  or rather at the instant where the command is given to start using the new version.   Again,  a quick unplug does the trick. This might be the moment to mention that the radio channels are all going to be re-numbered on Sky boxes probably in January.   You will need to get used to pressing 0 before a 3 digit number.   It seems likely that Radio 4 (for example) will become 0104. So that'll be fun. Wrap up well everyone.

Praise indeed Will...  I'm blushing. TNT would be worth a look.  I tend to forget to mention it because in 24 we're in a valley with next to no UHF signal and no date for TNT coverage (which still wouldn't get into our valley I suspect!).   But I use it in the UK and it's a good solution for many,  and the recent switch on of more French Tx sites means that 50% of the population can now get it. Do we know where the original poster lives...?

I assume we're talking satellite free to air here ("freeview" as a term  is generally confined to the UK digital terrestrial TV service run by the BBC and others). Anyway,  first step is to unplug the box,  wait for 30 secs or so,  plug it back in and wait for it to come back to life.  Chances are it's now working but if not post again!