Martin963

As Danny says. France built over 3500 UHF main stations and relays in the period 1964 - late 1990s. Pratically every nook and cranny had one, sometimes only serving a few houses (cf Britain where the criterion was eventually 500 homes unserved before a relay could be considered, we have 1150 stations approx). Come digital switch-over it was simply impractical to maintain such a large network, so in fact only about 1600 relays carry French digital TV, the rest lie sadly silent. In some favourable cases people thus deprived can make use of a main station, but it's reckoned that UHF coverage dropped from over 99% of homes to about 95%. France already had an analogue satellite distribution system in place, which was already used by about 2 million homes, mostly to pick up France 5/Arte/M6 which had incomplete terrestrial coverage. This sat distribution was ideal for conversion to digital and meant that those with dodgy or lost terrestrial after switchover had a simple solution for maintaining their pictures. Another operator (Canalsat effectively) provided yet another sat alternative via TNTsat. Where we are in 24 our terrestrial signals aren't brilliant unless you're up on a hill, but satellite romps in, and we know a number of people who - having seen their rateau crash onto their roofs during the 1999 hurricane - swore never to replace them having discovered just how convenient satellite is..... In our case it means we can cart the sat receivers back to Britain and go on watching French TV. But - indeed - if a rateau works (which in 95% of cases it will) then it's convenient, and the receivers are FAR cheaper. Incidentally, a lot of French TV is now available via FTA satellite across 19 E 5 W and 9 E. TF1/2/3/4/M6/Arte/W9/TMC/LCP/BFM/iTele/LCI/TV5 are all FTA so if like me you have satellite dishes pointing in all directions the need for Fransat and TNTsat has largely disappeared. You didn't really need to know all that did you.....!

I should have added - for GP's benefit as he knows what he's on about (and may know this already) - that you don't need a Fransat receiver to access France 3 HD on 5 deg W - it's replaced the FTA SD version on 11591 MHz and is also FTA. So those of us who find the likes of Julie Andrieu and Carole Gaessler irresistible can now enjoy them in wonderful FTA HD.

That's presumably the terrestrial TNT (as opposed to sat?) or the sat regional version...? Apparently the problem is that in order to allow for the regional opt outs most regions have to pass the Paris France 3 HD signal through their studios, and thence on to the transmitters so if any part of the chain isn't HD capable then neither is the end picture off the transmitter (I'm putting it simply because I don't know exactly the pathways). If you watch the France 3 HD national signal on Fransat or TNTsat it's pretty good. TNTsat actually manage to get our boxes to opt in and out of the regional decrochages, that's to say they hop frequency to the local version just before the opt out and hop back to the national HD version just after; on our box there's a few seconds of blank screen at each change. On Fransat you can watch the National France 3 HD version on channel 300, but of course you won't get the decrochages. One way round would be for the engineers to do a similar opt in and out at the transmitters (ie switch to the studio for the local decrochage and back to the sat distribution for the rest of the time). But that would involve a whole lot of extra equipment, and the problem will in any case go away by 2017 when we're promised that France 3 regionals will have gone all HD anyway, so the pass through on the way to the txs will be HD. But you're right, there's been disappointment nationally that France 3 on terrestrial still looks awful in most areas apart from Paris.

The only catch is that 09 numbers from Britain are hugely expensive to dial,  even with cheapie over-rides etc.   Last time I checked it was something like 30 p per minute as compared to 2 p per minute to an ordinary 03 type number.  Others may correct me on that but it's what our provider indicated.....

Although I don't speak any German for me it's the classical radio stations that are the big attraction.   Sadly they increasingly favour "blah blah" over actual music but even so they are hugely preferable to oh-so-matey Radio 3 which I cannot stand in its dumbed-down state.   And "Dinner for One" alone justifies the TV channels!

Glad things went well,   although you should in fact have 26 free French HD channels (ie TF1 on position 1 through to LCI on 26);   are some missing? As to the other richesse of channels available via the box from Astra 1,  well come on Hereford this is France!!!    What possible relevance could all those channels - many of them of high (but foreign!) culture - have for those blessed by living within L'Hexagone....!!

Some brilliant responses!   Having been incredibly rude once or twice to people (which I don't like to be,  but they drive one to it) I now simply say "If you've got something important to tell me then please write to me at this address";  I then put the phone down. Incidentally (in response to something I think Pat said above) a survey on France 3 about three weeks ago showed 65% of those taking part wanting Britain to leave the EU,  with only 28% wanting us to stay.    Maybe we should include the entire French population in our referendum,  at least we'd get a definite answer....

There's a list of TVs compatible with the Fransat CI module here http://www.fransat.fr/files/bibliotheque/LISTE_TV_COMPATIBLE_FRANSAT_2015-WEB.pdf or from here http://www.fransat.fr/assistance/#FAQmodules I have a Technomate 5402 but to be honest you're making life difficult for yourself by not going down Fransat's preferred route!!    I do understand that it would be nice to be able to use the box of one's choice for this sort of thing but in the past this is precisely how sat operators got their fingers burned over piracy (ie marketing solo cards) so one can understand Fransat wanting to tie any such system into a cat's cradle of controls. Brilliant box incidentally,  you can do all sorts of things with it!

Thanks for the further thoughts folks. As I read it the Brits are still an "exception" according to that link. Having said that, we have a Dutch friend who has had several PVs sent to his home in Holland for motoring offences that he's supposed to have committed in the Bordeaux area, but which he clearly hasn't because he's been in Holland at the time. They've had the usual threats that he has to pay before he can appeal. I'll ask him next time we're over what's happening, I think he did launch an appeal after paying the first one. But I think it proves that the mechanism is in place at least for the Benelux countries, if that is the French are minded to use it.

Thanks Nick.   They will be relieved.

Friends who had been ski-ing for a week reckoned they were flashed on the way home. I don't know any details (what the limit was, what they were actually doing, where etc) but they asked me what the situation is now.... I'm probably wrong (hence the question) but my impression is that the mechanism was put into place (a couple of years ago...?) to seamlessly fine British drivers who are flashed in France, but that in fact even though the mechanism is now in place it doesn't seem to be being used.... If any of you driving experts can correct/update on this I'd be grateful.

Ah, but that's your seniority Wooly....!

I've just noticed that this idiotic forum has stopped me using the word p*ssy cat, (describing our volatile neighbour above). Honestly, the world has gone mad.

Yes, as has been said a new TNTsat HD box and an HD cable should get you - or rather keep you - up and running. And with a bit of luck you'll be reasonably impressed with the improved picture quality, you might be satisifed with what you've got already but in reality the standard def picture quality on some channels is lamentable; I in particular am enjoying France 3 in HD, it's a really worthwhile improvement. As wooly says, there is the Eutelsat alternative (Fransat) which is pretty equivalent to TNTsat but you need to stay with TNTsat because of the direction your dish is already pointing. There are minor plus points to both systems but no point in your changing.... As he says, the cards are "free" but only up to a point, they've always said that in the case of piratage they'll change them, and it's clear it won't be them who pay for the swap out! In addition, Fransat began (from memory) in 2009 with their standard def offering, which terminates in April. So the cards have only lasted seven years! Fifteen euros every four years for TNTsat is probably about what it costs them to produce and administer the card system anyway.

Well you DO need a card for TNTsat (which is what you have) but I'm afraid that a new one will be foisted on you when you buy the TNTsat HD box, they come as a pairing. Worth watching out for, our French neighbours bought a TNTsat HD box in the autumn and the local dealer said "oh you won't need the new card, I'll hang on to it", but as I explained to him if he doesn't get the new card his current one will expire at the end of its four years (already two years gone) and he'll therefore have to pay for a new one a couple of years earlier than needs be. As he's quite volatile and ready with his fists (he's a pussy cat with us!) I waited with bated breath to hear how the rendezvous with the dealer went, but we had to come back to England before it happened...

Thanks for the further input from folk. I'll leave well alone, taking a spare moderner router out with me next time we go.

Works perfectly in Devon. I'll bring out a spare moderner one next time as the Netgear is happy here in Britain. Very odd though.

Thanks Pierre. You will know that this is not my area of expertise, but when you say "network adaptor" you mean I assume the thing in the computer rather than the Netgear 834. Unfortunately the Windows 7 laptop doesn't have the usual ethernet plug and the Windows 8 laptop (oh how I hate W 8) tells me that there's a Realtek adaptor but won't let me change anything, just COPY the details! But if websites are migrating IP4 -> IP6 I don't understand why the old Netgear 834 suddenly has lost IP4 connections, I'd expect it to be fine on IP4 but be stuck on IP6, but it's the other way round. What am I missing? (and as I say I don't really understand all this). Don't worry too much, I'll take the Netgear 834 home and get someone in England to chastise it...

Thanks Pierre. I duly reset, re-entered the Orange Decouverte password etc, and have exactly the same situation on the 834. Access to Google works perfectly, but absolutely nothing else. Same on all three computers (two Windoze laptops and a main Linux machine via ethernet); the Netgear 300 router seems to be fine. It really is most odd. Oh well, I'll try it periodically, maybe try a different PSU, and then take it back to England for the winter to see if that teaches it a lesson! Thanks again Pierre. I just don't understand why Google (of all things) should work perfectly, although a couple of days ago Google demanded that I click a user agreement (which I didn't read) - I suppose it couldn't be a false agreement which has cast a Google-only spell on the router itself....?

Totally odd behaviour this afternoon... Orange have apparently been working in our area,  and there was a warning that the internet might be affected today.    We are on Orange Decouverte..... About 16.00 ours ground to a halt (well it only manages 500 kbps at the best of times) but the router showed we were still connected/synchronised,  it was just that nothing was coming down the line to us.    I was able to ascertain that we could still send emails,  but could not receive them.   Later I noticed that we could use the Google Search engine,   working as well as it ever does,   but all the search results were unavailable,  just timing out.  Couldn't access anything else whatsoever.     Not a cache issue,   Google Translate on the Google page worked perfectly, so clearly our router could "see" Google in real time! Fruitless call to Orange,  they said it wasn't them.   Total frustration. But they were right,   I unearthed our spare router and it's working perfectly. So I propose to do a factory reset on the 834,   but before I do I just wondered whether any of you clever people could tell me what's happened.   Firewall in the 834 gone beserk?   Could that have been caused by Orange's work in the area...? The Netgear has never misbehaved before,  so I'm puzzled. Thanks folks.....

Thanks Emily. Satellite would be a last resort for us as although there does seem to be the possibility of using Astra SES in both countries the up front costs for two sets of equipment is going to be very heavy. I have also read a few horror stories about even generous monthly limits being exceeded in a few days, and when investigated the "meter" has been turning even when the sat box is disconnected. The company involved apparently "didn't want to know". Worrying.... At least in Devon we've now discovered who is sharing our copper line, we realised this morning we had a crossed line and managed to shout loud enough to attract the other party's attention and exchange numbers, so now we're both on the warpath against the hopeless BT.

Looking at a certain quite well-known and indeed well-respected supplier in 87 I note that Tooway are no longer accepting domestic subscribers in the south west of France. Is this a sign that there's already a contention issue on satellite? Our Devon ADSL is getting worse and worse (whole village up in arms,   BT Openreach refusing to add any more ADSL customers,  internet off for hours at a time,  terrible speeds when it does work) and I'm wondering whether I could buy two sets of sat equipment and use the service (not at the same time) for both France and England,  thus saving the costs of copper ADSL at both homes.

[quote user="Jonzjob"]"Our two Samsungs are the best of the bunch,  whereas I find our LG TV makes SD look bad whatever settings I try on it." Good grief Martin, do you have a haunted fish tank in the loo too? [/quote] Deployed across two houses (one in France and one in Britain). I agree it did sound a bit OTT!  (although I do have a TV in the office,  which I see makes THREE Samsungs!).   Do like to be able to watch French TV in more than one room in each house.....

Certainly all this has been enough to put us off using Calais when we have to return to Britain next week.   We have booked Dieppe/Newhaven.  I haven't been on that route since 1975 ish as a teenager, in what I still remember as a rather grotty Sealink boat. Apart from any humanitarian aspect,  where on earth *is* all this going to end...?   Some pretty wild suggestions today (shutting down Calais,  deploying the army,  etc),  but then the situation it seems is getting pretty wild too. 

How much of a difference one sees when comparing HD and SD depends on a lot of factors,  including how far away you sit from the screen. For my own experience,  from the very first day I saw a non cathode ray tube TV I was shocked and appalled by how badly they seemed to make existing transmissions look.   All of them appeared to draw a very thin veil of net curtaining across the picture,  and some of them seemed particularly bad in producing "chattering" backgrounds. I therefore stuck to CRTs for as long as I could,  but once HD channels became available I was more than happy to change over as in some cases the picture quality can be breathtakingly good.  But I am still shocked by the lamentable quality on some SD channels - France 3 is particularly awful,  which is a great pity as they have some good programmes.  In addition,  apart from the size of the screen and how far you sit from it,   some TVs seem to produce less awful SD pictures than others.   Our two Samsungs are the best of the bunch,  whereas I find our LG TV makes SD look bad whatever settings I try on it. Our neighbours in Devon have a (now quite elderly) 26 inch Sony TV,  and from where they habitually watch it it is quite true that distinguishing HD from SD is difficult,  partly because they aren't right up near it and partly because this particular Sony handles SD signals in an exemplary manner. The silly part is that a lot of the problems of poor SD quality are down to the broadcasters and the fact that they're trying to squeeze too many channels onto each multiplex (DTT/TNT) or transponder (DSat).   And the worry from that is that once we've all gone HD (which we will (*)) the same old cramming too many channels into not enough space will foul the HD nest. (*)  France swaps to HD only (technically speaking it's a move from MPEG 2 to MPEG 4,  but HD will pretty much happen at the same time) in April 2016.   On TNTsat the change is already available (from 1st July,  if you have a TNTsat HD box) and the remaining SD channels that are on the new MPEG 4 carriers do look quite a bit better). This dimunition in HD quality has already happened at the BBC,   where the original bit rates used on the HD channel have been halved in the last five years.   Some relief has been had by using more sophisticated coders but there are many with better eyes than mine who bewail the drop in quality.