La Guerriere
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Posts posted by La Guerriere
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Oh, and by the way, I'm sticking with Legrand as well. You'll find that in theory you can get ABB, AEG, Schupa etc stuff cheaper, but it doesn't seem to have the same reputation, and the one great thing about Legrand is that you can always get the bits. Everybody sells it, it's a bit like MK in the UK.
Jim Again
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Yes, there does seem to be some differences in philosophy t'other side of the channel:
The basic "box" and the DIN rails do seem to be similar, but the French system is to have a 30mA RCD on all circuit groups, but no big (80 or 100 amp) two-pole incomer switch This is also downstream of the EDF disjoncteur de branchement, which limits the power (amps) going through. The individual circuit protection which are probably best as disjoncteurs equivalent to MCB's rather than fuse carriers (still legal), are normally two-pole (phase et neutre) rather than single pole as in most UK systems.
Stick with French kit: it tends to be a bit more expensive than UK, but that way you will always comply with NF specifications.
And somehow, no matter how you work it, you always seem to end up with HODS of circuits: its something to do with the limits of numbers of sockets on a circuit and the requirement for separate circuits for things like washing machines etc etc. I have a house in UK and a maison secondaire over the other side, and the French one needs about twice the number of circuits to comply with NF C 15-100
Jim La Guerriere
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A few extra thoughts:
a) If you're feeling really pedantic, the Big White Round Thing in the loft is a chauffe-eau electrique a accumulation. I've had to replace one once (hanging it on an earth wall is an Interesting Experience in itself) and replaced the thermostat once. Don't forget that when it heats up, the pressure inside goes up a bit, then the pressure relief valve kicks in and releases water via the overflow. So when you draw water for a shower or whatever, there is an initial fast run of water, then it slows down as the pressure drops back to mains level. Taking a shower give it a moment or two to settle down.
b) Plato's engineering in quite right. In theory earthing needs to be only sufficient to pick up the residual current that would cause the RCD (or interrupteur differential) to trip out, but that ain't the way that NF C 15-100 looks at it. I suppose they base it on the (not unreasonable) assumption that French farmers may have been putting 6-inch nails in the old fuse box. Having said that, it's probably easier err on the side of safety and put in big earth conductors... after all it's labour not really the cost of copper that causes the problem.
c) The French themselves seem to get their ditto knickers in a twist re NF C 15-100 just as much us us Foreigners, whether of the UK or antipodian persuasion. If you want really good entertainment on all aspects of French electrics I can recommend www.cyberbricoleur.com.
Happy plumbing !
Jim La Guerriere
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The rules and regs for domestic electricity in France are subject to the following:
French Standard (Normes Francais). The ruling document is NF C 15-100 which came into effect in June 2003. This is a big advance on previous French and includes stringent requirements for earthing (tougher than UK rules), new types of socket (with mechanical hole obturation), and severe limits on the number of sockets and light fittings allowed on individual circuits. Old-fashioned sockets which were held in by clamps are no longer allowed. There needs to be separate circuits for cooker, washing machine, dishwasher etc and for heaters, where there are kilowatt limits per circuit rather than numeric limits. There are new regulations for plug-ins at all light fittings (the DCL). The heaters need to be wired directly in, using spur points (sortie de cable). There also appear to be stern requirements for the provision of telephone and television points, although whether this is always insisted upon is difficult to clarify. Similarly, there may be requirements for mechanical ventilation systems for kitchen, bathroom and WC (VMC), but there seems to be disagreement as to whether is a recommendation or a requirement. A 32A cooker point is mandatory even though we have a gas cooker.
PROMOTELEC. This is the State body for the promotion of the use of electricity. They provide guidance as to the number of points and light fittings that should be provided per room. This taken together with the number of fittings per circuit dictates the number of ways needed on the main distribution board (consumer unit): this tends to be much higher that on an equivalent UK installation.
Have a look at http://www.promotelec.com for further information. They do a nice little summary boodklet entitled "Locaux d'Habitation: Installation Electrique" which gives a good summary of both Promotelec requirements and also NF C 15-100.
CONSUEL (Comite National pour la Securite des Usagers de l’Electricite) is the body constituted to carry out inspections on new electrical installations. They can be engaged by the individual or by electrical contractor. It is reputed that this can be a formality for known and registered contractors but can be difficult for individuals. In theory a full rewire and new board, equivalent to a new installation requires certification by CONSUEL before EDF will allow connection back to the board. CONSUEL certification would normally require full compliance with NF and PROMOTELEC requirements. The CONSUEL inspection requires the testing of the earth resistance on the new connection (prise de terrre) which requires special expensive test equipment that a contractor only might have. It can’t be done with a standard multimeter. However, earth test meters are available for hire from several UK outfits, and having read this up, it seems to be straightforward enough.
There are special new requirements for the integration of the distribution board, incoming power and communications systems, the GTL or Gaine Technique Logement, but this only appears to apply to brand new installations, or renovations involving the moving of walls.
I also recommend the book "L'Installation Electrique" by Gallauziaux and Fedullo, Edition Eyrolles which is very clear and explanatory on most of the above.
Jim La Guerriere
Resine Accrochage
in House Renovations
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I think it's one of those all-purpose PVA sort of things: you can slop it on, dilute it and slop it on, mix it with mortar as a plasticiser, and slop it on. It's probably not essential for anything but it does help things stick together
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Jim La Guerriere