Chocfish

Thanks Sue - just having the key terms to search with makes a difference. Maybe it's another one of these things that are handled by banks here - I can't think of companies in France that are the equivalent of the big financial service providers in the UK - L&G, Standard Life, Scottish Widows etc. We already use Wise for transfers, but haven't set up accounts yet. Thanks for the tip.

Hello all We are UK citizens, French residents. We have a substantial sum invested in a Legal & General index tracker fund in the UK. They have recently informed us that they are selling their entire investment business to Fidelity. Because we are not UK residents, it appears that our investment cannot simply be transferred to Fidelity (as it is essentially opening a new account), we are looking for a new home for the money. We still have much the same goals that attracted us to index trackers: low ongoing fees and charges, easy investing, no brokers / IFAs fees, dead simple, decent return over the long term. Do companies like L&G exist in France? We made enquiries about longer term savings here a while ago and were put off by the complexity of what was being offered, what looked like lots of fees and charges, having to deal with an IFA / broker. We've had a look at the Fidelity and Vanguard France site: they seem to be geared towards professionals, not personal investors. What do the French do for long term, low cost savings? The other catch is that the money we have been investing comes from UK rental properties, so we'd have to take the cost of transferring this to France each month as well...

Ouf, i didn’t realise my ability (or not) to speak French was up for discussion, but fair enough. I have a severe hearing loss, and despite being appareillée with very good hearing aids, it has certainly had an impact on my learning French over the years. I’m registered as handicapped with the MDPH here. Mr CF is fluent, but we split the french admin with me doing as much as I can - clearly not very well! It’s a bit of a leap to assume every Brit who doesn’t become fluent in a few years is doing so wilfully. Communication is a complex thing. My french is fine in certaine circumstances (listening to a gouvernement announcement at home with headphones attached to the tv) and not so good in others (masks are a nightmare as I can’t lip read or see facial expressions - I’ve pulled back in some nascent friendships at the school gate this year because I just cannot understand what is being said at all, I just drop and run now unf). we live in a big city with lots of bilingual contacts. Most of my friends are English speakers. My workplace is fully bilingual. I’m not likely to need to talk to the maire ;-) Thanks for all the help - hopefully this will be the last year I need it!

Thank you all. I am sincerely hoping that we have made a mistake and that we can clear it up in a meeting. Our rental income is always under 15K. But the apartments are - as most are in the UK - furnished, which has seemed to cause much confusion for french tax accountants / lawyers / advisers over the years. The question of gross / net has also been unresolved - our account asked for net but I suspect we should have been using gross... We did have an accountant complete the return several years ago, and have tried to just copy his method each year as the UK situation has not changed. But every so often we come up against an official who objects, or I read something on here, or the form changes, and we do something slightly different... and it all falls apart, revealing the true depth of my ignorance! Mr CF will be going to meet the Impots face-to-face to thrash it out (and hopefully work out exactly how we should be completing the form in the future to avoid heart attacks being delivered on a Friday by lettre recommandé!

Hi all We've been inspected by the impots! The particular issue is that in our 2018 (for 2017) declaration we did not complete box 4BA and BL on the main form. We did complete box 8TK, but ( I can't remember now why not) did not complete 4BA and BL. The adviser also says that we failed to complete rubrique 6 on 2047 - I have no idea what this is as we have never gone near the 6s. Can anyone tell me: What do boxes 4BA and BL mean? Should we have been completing them all this time? We have for subsequent declarations. The impots claim we owe them €5000+as a result of this error. It seems a bit steep on €9000 rental income from the UK. Our situation is quite straightforward: we are resident in France since 2008, working and paying taxes. We've rented out 2 apartments in the UK. That income, plus a small dividend, are the only UK income we have. We have always declared on 2042 and 2047. Help! And what is a régime réel?

Thanks John... I will try working through your method. The confusing bit for me is that the forms have changed. But i'm guessing that 2DC should be calculated in the same way, irrespective of where it goes in the form now?

I think we need some magical way of conjuring Parsnips onto these threads... maybe like Beetlejuice, if we say his name three times he'll appear? Parsnips! Parsnips! Parsnips!!

Tell me about it! It makes my head hurt. We had an accountant do our tax return about 6 years ago, and since then I've faithfully followed his method. But this year they've changed the line numbers / structure of Section 2 Form 2047 and I didn't know where to put what. So I looked online, found the Connexion article which seemed to explain it, and followed that - though it was a bit different to the way I'd been doing it previously. Our accountant told us to enter the 10% notional UK tax credit in the " impots supporter a l'etranger" box. The Connexion said it should be zero. Doing the latter seems to have upset the Impots so they've asked me to correct it...but now I am questioning whether I should in fact have been entering 0 in there all these years... and I don't know what to put now! BTW 3783 euros is the amount we received (line 203). This is multipled by 17.7% (line 204), to give 670 euros (line 205). This 670 euros represents the tax credit we should receive in France (I think). If I put 378 euros (10% of 3783) in line 206, then the electronic form chooses the lesser amount between lines 205 and 206 to be the "credit impot a retenu" (line 207). Then these are added together (line 208) to give 4453 euros (if line 207 = 670). If OTOH I put 378 euros in ligne 206, then this goes into line 208 and the total revenus in line 208 will be slightly less. I can see how the form works - I just don't know how to work calculate the numbers to go into it!

Sorry for resurecting an old thread. I have posted a query re> dividend income that has me confused. I only just realised that the UK tax credit had been done away with. For the 2019 form, what goes in line 206 of form 2047: "impots supporte a l'etranger?"

"Corrections attendues sous huitaine (déclaration n°2042 K d'ensemble) : 1- report en 2DC : 4453€ 2-préciser le montant de l'impôt que vous avez payé sur la somme de 3783€ (Dividendes)/reporter à la case 206 ( Impôt supporté à l’étranger) et à la case 8VL de la déclaration n°2047 et 2042 C" Here are the corrections that the Impot have asked me to make. I've left the actual figures in this time, past caring!

They've gone and changed the forms again! We have a small income in the UK from a tracker fund. The dividends amount to around 4000 euros a year. To date I have filled in the dividend section 2 form 2047 with the figures and in the line "impots supporte a l'etranger" i put in 10% of the total, being the notional tax credit in the UK. This has always been accepted by the Impots. This year I (perhaps foolishly) followed an article in the Connexion as Section 2 of the 2047 had changed. The article said that the "impots supporte a l'etranger" should usually be left blank... so I did so. As a result the Impot have come back to me with required corrections as follows. 1- REVENUS DE CAPITAUX MOBILIERS (RU) :Vous avez porté dans votre déclaration n°2047 (revenus de sources étrangère- Royaume Uni) la somme de 4XXX€ (dividendes) sans reporter cette somme à la case 2DC de votre déclaration n°2042K et sans indiquer le montant de l'impôt payé au RU. Je vous rappelle que la convention fiscale internationale signée entre la France et le R U prévoit une imposition des ces revenus à l'impôt sur le revenu et au prélèvements sociaux en France avec l'octroi d'un crédit d’impôt est égal à l’impôt effectivement supporté à l’étranger, dans la limite des taux prévus par cette même convention et sans pouvoir excéder l’impôt français ( dans votre cas la convention plafonne le crédit d'impôt à 17,7 % /Royaume uni/France) I am okay with completing box 2DC on form 2042. Where I am stuck is calculating the " le montant de l'impôt payé au RU." as I am now questioning my previous method (which was the one our accountant used several years ago). So, in a nutshell - how to do I calculate the le montant de l'impôt payé au RU. - when we didn't, in effect, pay any tax in the RU as our income there doesn't exceed our personal allowance? Is the notional 10% tax credit the correct way to do it? Thank you oh wise ones.

We've gone "micro foncier" for the first time as well, having been prompted to by the Impots adviser. As a pp said, I've been under the impression that it was only for French rentals, but having looked around a bit it seems quite common for Brits to use it to declare UK rental income under the 15K threshold. Fingers crossed.

Lol I'm not planning to do anything other than project manage ;-) I'm not sure, but I suspect that the ceiling will be made of whatever the early 1900's version of plasterboard is... the walls are a skim layer of plaster then what seems to be solid stone ;-) I'm in the 6eme... are you in Lyon too?

Hi all I just know I'm going to get told off and not to fiddle with the electrics... believe me, I agree entirely, and promise not to do anything foolhardy with any information that y'all can share with me. I live in an old apartment. It's rented, we've been here for 10 years. The electrics are old: although the fuse box has been updated (it's not the old wood board / ceramic fuses at least) but I am sure that most of the cabling is original or at least very old. None of the ceiling lights have any kind of fitting around them. They are just a hole cut in the plaster, with a very old hard cable (usually wrapped with insulating tape or disintegrating cloth) hanging out for the bulb to be attached. Mostly they have a big metal hook, presumably where a chain is meant to attach a heavy light (chandeliers I presume). We haven't attempted to put anything other than a bulb and an IKEA paper lampshade on them so far. I'm a bit fed up of looking at these after 10 years ;-) The one in the hall seems to have lost its hook at some point in the past. So there's nothing hold the bulb and shade up other than the cable itself. What I'm wondering is whether there is any easy way to convert them to something that will take a modern lampshade? Would the old cabling need to be replaced or can it be incorporated into a more modern fitting? And could this be removed if we ever leave, presuming that the owners actually like the old style fittings? Cheers for any info.

Hi parsnips, thank you for dropping by ;-) I will indeed be chasing a reimbursement of last years social charges on our UK rental income, armed with this years and the previous years 0 charges, as you suggest. To clarify, this years Avis Declaratif also shows that we have no tax - nothing - to pay on our income - which is not the norm (not that we earn loads, but usually we have to pay several hundred tax on income). I've compared it with last years calculations, and there are some differences: In calculating the "revenu percus par le foyer fiscal" they have not included "revenus fonciers nets" This means that the "revenu brut global" is several thousand euros less than last years calculation. There are several other subsequent differences, but I think they stem from the above? Is this because I have done the tax return incorrectly? Hmm, I think we won't blow the refund quite yet and Mr CF will be off to the impots office in September - again!

And told us we have nothing to pay sur le revenu 2018? They've sent an Avis Declarative rather than the usual Avis Primitif. What's the difference? Last year we paid tax on income and social charges on UK rental income. This year, both the totals for these are shown on the Avis Declarative as 0 euros to pay. And, as I said, they have reimbursed the first and second payments made in 2017-2018 so far. Just as we'd made our peace with paying social charges on the UK rental income, they've changed it all again!

Cheers parsnips, I hoped you'd happen by...;-) On the avis primitif they have Added together all our UK income (rent and dividends) to get the BASE IMPOSABLE then... Multiplied that by the Taux (8.2% for CSG etc) to get the Montant de l'imposition then.. Applied a credit of 73% and subtracted that from the Montant then.. Charged us the remaining 27% social charges. The only other possibility that makes sense is that the Impots has only applied the tax credit to the part of our income that comes from rent - and not to the part that comes from dividends (which would make sense in light of what you've confirmed above). The numbers match up (dividends = 27% of total UK income, rental income = 73% of total UK income: tax credit granted for 73% ) but it's not explained anywhere on the avis that I can see. Notwithstanding that,the advice at the tax office was still mince - even I could see that!

We have UK income from three sources: UK rental income, furnished flats Dividends Bank accounts We are working in France and fully affiliated with French social security servce. We are resident in France and we are not S1 holders. So which of the above income sources are we required to pay social charges on? From our 2015 tax return, we received a credit of 100% on social charges. Last year (2016 return) we only received 70% credit. When my husband queried this with the tax office he was told that "100% tax credit for social charges on UK income" was a myth, and that in fact the Government decided each year what % the tax credit would be.... we didn't challenge it at that point but since then I've seen various posts in various places suggesting that this advice is not correct and that we should pursue a reimbursement of the social charges? Any advice oh wise ones?

We have: French salary (my husband works here) French bank accounts UK rental income UK dividend income UK bank account interest And that's it.

So it should be 100% tax credit for the social charges on the UK rental income? The only other UK income we have is some dividends, but that was the same last year and they applied nearly a 100% credit that year. Our situation changes very little each year so I completed the form in exactly the same way (I think!) - it's the Impots way of dealing with it that seems to vary each year... I think we'll head to the tax office when we get back home and follow it up. Re. the 'baisse d'impot'... as far as I can make it, each year the govt passes a new 'loi de finances' which often includes some kind of tax reduction for specific groups such as lower income families. I guess in 2016 we must have been included in whichever lucky group received a rebate, and this year we aren't.

Ahhhhhhh.. still learning! Basically, in France, we pay tax in advance throughout the year then balance it out in September? I had it totally back to front - thinking that the payment plan for the year was based on the declaration submitted the year before. We hadn't realised that the Jan and May payments were nothing more than a guess-timate based on last year's payments, and indeed we have a large amount still to pay in September. Which leads me to another question... on our 2016 Avis d'Impot in the top LHS is says "Vous bénéficiez de la baisse de l'impôt sur le revenu votée dans la loi de finances pour 2016. Votre impôt est de *** €. Sans cette baisse, il aurait été de * *** €." This reduction, which doesn't seem to be available this year (?) reduced last year's tax by half: the guesstimate was based on this reduced figure, so our first two payments are piddly compared to this years total. Ho hum. Any ideas on the change from 98% to 70% tax credit on the social charges?

So I am back once again to try and understand this year's tax bill... we have some UK income from rental properties and dividends, all of which is declared in the UK and which is well below our personal allowance in the UK (though I am coming to understand that this is irrelevant as we are tax residents in France). The main change this year seems to be that the tax credit applied when calculating the social charges has been reduced considerably. Last year the tax credit was around 98%, thus reducing the social charges to very little. This year, the tax credit that has been applied is closer to 70%. Does this sound right? Also, according to the 'avis primitif' we've got to pay the entire tax bill in full before the 15 September... last year we were able to pay in three instalments. Possibly this is a tactic to push us towards agreeing to monthly payments? Cheers for any feedback.

Oh thank you parsnips - I hoped you'd pop up! We have responded to the tax office to say that we didn't specify anything last year, and that we've done as advised by our acct previously. We pointed out that all the income is from / in the uk etc etc. If she comes back and insists we opt for something then we have your guidance to follow and will stay well away from form 2042 c pro (which was part of our saga last year!) Debra - I am a she! Mr CF has had it up to here with tax business - he Is finding it hard to shake his belief that a govt agency should be able to give a consistent answer on a fairly straightforward situation - the responses here show that it is anything but consistent! So for the sake of all our stress levels I try to muddle through the tax...;-)

Thanks, I've done a bit more research and it does look like these questions relate to form 2042-pro which is for declaring french income. All our accountant said about this was that this form was not necessary. Any other advice welcome while I craft a polite yet assertive email to the tax office ;-)

Oops... We completed 2047 and transferred the total to 8TK on form 2042... Thanks