richard51
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Posts posted by richard51
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Quillan - 3 - that's THREE Israeli civilians killed - one of which was a Bedouin that Israel refused to provide shelters. Along with 40 some soldiers. This compares with 1,361 Palestinians of which 315 are kids, 166 are women, 58 elderly men, 15 medical staff and 6,780 injured including 2,307 kids. More UN workers have died than Israelis. More internationals have died than Israelis.No offence Quillan but you are taking the proverbial. This is genocide - and you sit there and pontificate. Let's imagine for one minute that the situation was reversed - there would be hell up. But of course we are comparing the 'chosen' and their blood is more valuable, their lives more precious.Mrs 51
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Its pretty damned obvious that they have. The point is how many.There - are you happy now.
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I hope that the theme is more that its disproportionate.Not wishing to justify, but OH did post on the international legal situation a while back on this tread - ie Israel have no right to attack Gaza as it is occupied by them and also the occupied do have a right to defend themselves. This justification by Israel, US and UK is just not correct.I'm sad to see that you have no desire to do anything. Every day now for a while I have listened to the tragedies/atrocities unfold in Gaza, and each day have thought that surely people will think enough is enough and force Israel to stop.
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Sorry you may be refering to Mondoweiss.This is from its own description::
About Mondoweiss
Mondoweiss is a news website devoted to covering American
foreign policy in the Middle East, chiefly from a progressive Jewish perspective.It has four principal aims:
- To publish important developments touching on Israel/Palestine, the American Jewish community and the shifting debate over US foreign policy in a timely fashion.
- To publish a diversity of voices to promote dialogue on these important issues.
- To foster the movement for greater fairness and justice for Palestinians in American foreign policy.
- To offer alternatives to pro-Zionist ideology as a basis for American Jewish identity.
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I presume you refer to the stats website I referenced. It is actually an Israeli website which the Israeli government often uses.
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I quoted the relevant half - which I am perfectly entitled to do. Unless you are suggesting forum users can't read?? ;)Mrs 51
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[quote user="nomoss"]....and a group with the same ethnicorigin, led by another bunch of fanatics, who believe in a different supernaturalbeing, claim they have sole rights to the territory, and want to annihilate thefirst group?[/quote]
This is the last vestiges of colonialism: white, largely European, settlers wanting to settle and ethnically cleanse the land of its indigenous population - the Palestinians. If some foreigner came and took my land, my olive trees, killed my mother and father, imprisoned and tortured my brother, bombed my children - I'd feel pretty angry too.
Mrs 51
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Trouble is Britain and America did and made one family all-powerful.
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There have been numerous attempts to get them around the table but when one party (Israel) doesn't want peace then it becomes a pointless exercise as Kerry found out. Netanyahu has stated that 'he will do everything within his power to ensure there is never a Palestinian state': http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/netanyahu-palestinian-state.html As the 'Palestinian Papers' (released as part of the 'wikileaks') clearly demonstrated, Palestine were making all the concessions and Israel none - http://www.theguardian.com/world/palestine-papers-documents/browse. Which was the same scenario in the latest round of talks causing Kerry to place most of the blame for the failed talks on Israel. Of course Kerry was accused of being 'anti-Semitic' which has become the standard response to anyone who criticizes Israel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0kWAqZxJVE).No peace gives Netanyahu: no agreed borders and so continued settlement expansion, military law, $3bn aid per annum from the US and the ability to milk world sympathy as the supposed 'victim' in all of this. Why would he want to give that up? Mrs 51
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Just evening things up - Mehdi Hasan, the author, though British, is Indian ethnicity.
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CKs link is really trying to compare the Israel/Palestinian situation with that of the creation of Pakistan in 1947. Whereas that particular conflict was definitely religion-based the creation of Israel was indeed not. The extremely religious Jews were and still are against the creation of Israel. Bibi is, I understand, atheist as is the Pakistani/Canadian author of the link.There was no occupation or creation and progressive stealing of land etc. Pakistan's military have no defenceless, poorly equipped, people to bully.Here are some more myths:http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html
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The killing of Gazan children can not be looked at in isolation - it is part of 66 years ethnic cleansing. It should also be looked at in the context of Israeli domestic politics which are extremely right wing and racist. An excellent book is Max Blumenthal's "Goliath: Life and loathing in Greater Israel" Max is a highly respected Jewish American journalist. His book is based on two years research in Israel.Rachel Shabi's book - "Not the enemy - Israel's Jews from Arab lands" is also worth reading. Rachel is an Iraqi Jew.Mrs 51
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The Palestinian economy is crippled by the occupation (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/08/palestinian-territories-israel-control-hurting-economy). The unemployment rates are very high with no welfare. Palestinians working in Israeli factories in the West Bank have NO health and safety protection and NO minimum wage. They work there because the occupation means their is little other choice. EDIT: I would also add that these are reasons why there is an incentive for Israeli businesses to move to illegal settlements in the West Bank - that and financial grants from the Israel government and tax free status for the first few years of operation.Coca Cola has factories built on stolen land in illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank. Further it has compounded its position by acquiring controlling interests in other business also built on stolen land in illegal settlements. Coca Cola have been an active supporter of Israel and the occupation since 1967 when it began. Coca Cola also financially supports a number of organisations that promote Israel's occupation to overseas government - including 'Friend of Israel' who have provided all expenses propaganda trips to UK politicians from all three major UK political parties - and by doing so have bought the silence from HMG over the current massacre in Gaza.As an aside, Palestine had its own soft drinks factory that was in direct competition with Israeli soft drinks being sold in the West Bank. Israel's answer? It bombed it. 'For security reasons' of course - like olive groves are cut to the ground - 'for security reasons'. I visited the remains of the soft drinks factory last time I was in the West Bank.Mrs 51
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Russethouse: "Arbeit Macht Frei" - if you don't recognise it already Google it.
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In the guardian I can only see that 4 soldiers were killed by mortar fire from Gaza and not children.
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My understanding of the six day war was that Egypt massed forces on the border. Despite American intelligence and advise to Israel that they were not strong enough and would not attack, Israel mounted a surprise attack and knocked out the Egyptian air force before rolling out pretty much unopposed. Perhaps, in this instance, Wiki may be a suitable background source .
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Re Coca Cola - They own a dairy farm in a settlement on occupied Palestinian land and a factory in the Golan. If you google "occupation coca cola" you will see this and more and also how cynical advertising really works.Quillan. In your first paragraph you state that a mortar from the Gaza strip hit a Israeli house and killed 4 occupants, including children. I can't find any reference to this at all. I'm surprised as that would be dynamite (really sorry!) to Israeli propaganda. Where was your reference?Back to Mr R51
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Two simple things you can do:First: boycott. This site has a list of all those companies that support the occupation: http://www.bdsmovement.net/ This visual shows brands that support the occupation and land theft: [img]http://astiak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/t3-boycott_israel_ii.jpg[/img]Secondly - write to your representatives in the UK or France. To find your MP: http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/ To find you MEP: http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/your_meps.htmlMrs 51
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Just to clarify, under international law, Hamas are legally entitled (under the First Protocol to the 4th Geneva Convention) to resist occupation. In contrast Israel, as military occupier, has no right of defence - regardless of what Western politicians may say. Rather it has an obligation to safeguard the Palestinians whom it is occupying who are 'protected persons'. Whether we are permanently resident in France or the UK, we are now witnessing war crimes that are being carried out in our name and with our financial and political support.My concern is that we (Brits) created this situated and we have helped to maintain the ethnic cleansing and occupation for 66 years. As a consequence, we have a moral obligation to support the Palestinians in their bid for self determination. I do find it difficult to understand those that put an animal ahead of a human being or who dismiss the horrors that have befallen others and which continue to befall them as a direct result of our politics. There for the grace of God goes any one of us.I had hoped that those on LF would still be a voice for justice. Mrs 51
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Tonight has some of the worst bombardment that Gaza has seen. Nevertheless, in Israel, Israelis in Tel Aviv are chanting: "There's no school tomorrow, there's no children left in Gaza! Oleh!”http://wp.me/p1U9Fu-aq7Mrs 51
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The Palestinians are being slowly starved courtesy of the blockade. The water is undrinkable, desalination and water treatment plants have been bombed. The last power station has been shelled. The only food to go in is the minimum required to sustain human life. Britain CREATED this situated. WE are responsible.But never mind, Idun, you wash your hands of all the world's problems and sit back and enjoy your life. “The real damage is done by those millions who want to 'survive.' The honest men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won’t take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those who don’t like to make waves—or enemies. Those for whom freedom, honour, truth, and principles are only literature. Those who live small, mate small, die small. It’s the reductionist approach to life: if you keep it small, you’ll keep it under control. If you don’t make any noise, the bogeyman won’t find you. But it’s all an illusion, because they die too, those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what? Life is always on the edge of death; narrow streets lead to the same place as wide avenues, and a little candle burns itself out just like a flaming torch does. I choose my own way to burn.” ― Sophie SchollMrs 51
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Israel is, tonight, murdering children - at Eid. Eid is the equivalent of Christmas. Seventeen are dead - killed while playing - in broad daylight, forty injured.Quillan - to be frank - I'm disgusted with you with your ignorance, your complete lack of humanity andyour self righteous arrogance. Please don't tell me to 'research' your stupid wiki links and ridiculous 'apachevideo' comments. I have done the best research - I lived and worked out there..in the Deheishe Refugee Camp.I've watched as Israeli 'soldiers' have shot children in the back while they were running for their bus. It was exam day, an important day and the soldiers at the checkpoint made them strip, and then wait until they were ready. Precious minutes and an important exam - so he ran to catch his bus.... A single bullet in his back...Then there was the elderly lady. Wife of the stall holder. Hebron is a very difficult place. 500 settlers protected by 4,000 soldiers - and settlers take priority. They had already lost their home above the stall - taken by settlerswho now taunted them from above. The settlers regularly threw a variety if detritus over them: furniture, rocks, excrement to the extent that mesh had had to be put over the souk to protect shoppers. On this day, we thought itjust was water, maybe urine they were throwing. We were wrong. It was caustic acid. Amidst the screams we shouted for help - an ambulance. We were met by threats of gun fire from the IDF. Even when the emergency vehicles arrived they were blocked by soldiers. The woman is scared forever, physically: I am marked,forever, mentally.Quillan - I question not only your integrity but your humanity.Mrs Richard 51
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I think this topic has maybe run its course but out of interest the BMJ features the destruction of Gazan hospitals: http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4865Idun. See your view but:I'm older and still think its wrong and should be discussed..Sis in laws dad, before my OH went work in refugee camp in Bethlehem, told herthat he was there too. Remembered till his death that he was given a gun, but was told not to fire asPalestinians were killed by Zionists in front of him.
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Given the anti semitic actions in France at the moment I think it is a very relevant topic. People should not be demonstrating against Jews but Zionists.
Perhaps we should reflect on this
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