BobDee

J R I am trying my best to follow the "Normes". I have an excellent book from Schneider that fully describes the new standards and within it shows several typical wiring systems. All seem to split the incoming supply over differing local distributions, each protected by its own disjoncteur differentiel. We only have a smallish bungalow type home and a x 2 split seems appropriate but it also seems that ideally you also split out outside wiring (gates, blinds and external power). Clearly some of this is commercial hype in that Schneider would like to sell as much hardware as possible. I have seen systems where every socket in the house is taken back to its own disjoncteur and others (still quite modern), where up to eight power sockets are fed from one breaker. Quite a minefield, especially when you are just trying to make your own home as safe as possible, but also having regard to a possible future inspection scenario if one wants to sell in years to come. Starting a new build is in many cases, easier than trying to bring a twenty five year old system up to date. Regs BobD

Many thanks AR and JR for the helpful replies and pointing  out the Consuel error. Just another point please.. Ideal systems seem to require at least two if not three Disjoncteur differentiels to break up different areas of the house or property. Do these devices break the circuit at the same speed as the straight disjoncteur? The present installation has only the sealed EDF breaker (30 amp rating with 500 mA diff trip) with all circuits being protected by standard cartridge fuse holders.  I quite like the idea of splitting the house wiring into 2 with each half being protected by a separate 20A Dis Dif. I dont see any point in putting in say 40A dis difs if the individule breakers would always trip first. Regs BobD

Can some one explain why all cooker points seem to be rated at 32 amps even when the maximum power from EDF is 6KW? I am in the process of updating a 25 year old house and replacing the fusibles with disjoncteurs and doing my best to conform to NF C 15-100. If the cooker develops a fault, clearly the 32 amp disjonc is not going to trip when the incoming EDF breaker is rated only at 30 amps. What is the official situation if I feed the cooker via a 20 amp disjonc. Does this break the norms? The current fusible feeding the cooker is a 32 amp housing containing a 16 amp fuse. The cooker itself has a max power rating of 2.6 kW plus a single top ring of 1.5 kW, making a total max current around 18 amps. A 20 amp disjonc would be ideal here, but what would an EDF man say if it were inspected? BobD

Hi Paul, Hope the name is right!. The flue is vertical, about 5 inches in diameter and has a "rain hat" at the top. Its only a bungalow so its no great length. It looks like a simple cylinder with no double skin that I can see but then unless I get onto the roof its pretty hard to be sure. I reinsulated the pipes under the air vent the first time they froze about three days back, using that self adhesive aluminium backed foam tape stuff. Looks neat but probably not the best way to do it. I like the idea of the foam solution but there are two gas taps in the same pipe run that that would have to be masked out. Some form of baffle on the outside that would still let air in but stop the direct freezing draft might also be a possibility. It could be that because the boiler is so old, there was not the importance attached to air venting in the 1980's. I never remember air vents for gas fires and ascots when I was a kid.. (talking 50's now!) BobD

GP. Thanks for the response. The boiler dosn't, as fas as I can see have a double flue system. It looks like a single pipe. The room is a utility room with obviously a window and the only ventilation is into the main house via a normally open door. I fully understand the importance of ventilation of gas appliances, but cant understand why the installation instructions make no mention of ventilation requirements. Could the 223c be somehow self ventilating? Its just been in the recent cold weather that the frozen pipe situation has arisen. The vent is behind a washing machine at virtually floor level and I am thinking of fitting a deflector to the base of the vent to stop the airflow from directly hitting the water pipe below it. Cant understand why it didnt freeze last winter, All I can think of  is that I now have a sheet of cardboard under the washing machine (to make it easier to move), and this is preventing the normally warm room air from getting to the water pipe. BD

Our French home has a 20 year old Gas Boiler which works fine. My question is, does this type of bolier need an air vent in the same room? There is a hole in the wall with a plasic grill just above floor level, which I had assumed was for the boiler, but having current problems with cold air from this vent actually freezing the cold water pipe that runs immediatly below it, I'm looking at alternative ways of venting the boiler if it actually needs a separate air supply. I have the original installation instructions for the boiler and can see no mention of an air vent requirement. It may be that the hole in the wall was for a dryer and nothing to do with the boiler. Any ideas any one? Regs BobDee 

Thanks Nick, but original question was: "Does this mean that for load bearing walls, different rules apply?" I'm still digging for firm information and it seems this question comes up all the time on French forums. What I've learnt so far is that walls thicker than 10 cms do have different rules. The obvious allowed method for horizontal runs  is to get into the cavity of the bricks and and makes holes at every brick joint along the horizontal run to pass the gaine from brick to brick. You cant make diagonal runs or go over the top of doors or windows. Still not sure about laying gaine in plaster assuming its thick enough over the bricks so to do. BobD

OK, so no one can answer my original question. I'm sure thread hijacking is a Guillotinable offence! BobDee

Many thanks to John and GS for the responses. John, or anyone, is there a separate case for LOAD BEARING walls? Are the norms or regs different here? I am not a qualified electrician but have been in the professional electronics / computer /radio engineering  industry for many years and do understand the dangers that could be encountered. Never did understand though, how plastic trunking of even less gaine can protect against the uninitiated drilling blindly into walls.  Resolved to ask the guys at Weldom next time I'm in town about horizontal runs. Does anyone know of an inspection that has failed because of this? Looking at some of the earlier posts, there's quite a few folk who it would seem, would benefit from firm clarification on this.  

Hi Paul. That sounds really what I was after. So.... if I want to fit two wallights on a load bearing wall, I can feed one from above or below vertically and then run horizontal gaine between the two. I still dont see the logic in different rules for partition walls. Maybe the theory is that if you find a partituion wall in ten years time you should be able to assume that all the cables run vertically. Regs   BobD

Hi Nick, The picture that goes with the text shows three vertical runs and one horizontal (50 cms max). Weldom is the brico responsible. I dont understand the non load bearing wall reference. Are there different rules for chanelling exterior walls? Logically there would be more stringent rules for cutting channels in supportive structures. Perhaps there are. Maybe someone can help on this one. Bobdee

Just picked up a leaflet from the local Brico that describes how to run cables in plaster. Quote: "En cas d'une cloison non porteuse, toute saignée oblique est interdite les saignées droites sont autorisées dans les limites indiquées ci-dessus" I take this to mean that in non load bearing partition walls, horizontal gaine runs are not allowed (except for short ones of no longer than 50 cms). Does this mean that for load bearing walls, different rules apply? Regs Still learnin! BobDee

Anton, Thanks for the response. The uprights are all metal as far as I can determine and drilling horizontal holes in every upright would clearly be difficult. I guess nothings impossible but it looks like the wall would be pretty much wrecked after the exercise. I wonder if the "Professional" would be also be inclined to replace all the "ungained" flexible cable  he encountered whilst putting in the new socket. The somewhat indirect point of this posting is just how far does one go in bringing electrics up to the current regs? Most of the light switches in this house have power sockets fitted directly underneath them on a common fused spur. Again presumably the norm for the mid 80's. What I wonder, would an electrical inspection make of that? Regs BobDee

We have a 1980's built bungalow. All the wiring from the main distribution board is in gaine and there are various inspection/distribution boxes on the solid walls in the house. There are also a number of partition walls that consist of a metal frame work with heavy plasterboard with polystyrene insulation backing. However the wiring to various light switches / power points, on these walls is in semi flexible cable three core cable (no gaine), which presumably met 1980's regs.. I need to add additional sockets to some of these partition walls. I know about the requirment to put cables or separate wires in gaine but getting into these walls is a real pain. The metal framework makes top access difficult especially as the ceiling is tongue and grooved boarding and double skinned as well. I can fairly easily extend the flexible cable approach but that wouldn't meet the current norms. How would a professional electrician deal with this? There is no consuel inspection involved but I would like to get it as correct as possible. Forthcoming legislation regarding electical installation reports are a concern if we want to sell this place in a few years time, but 90% of French houses do not meet the latest recommendations so extending the existing flexible wiring within the partition walls is a temptation. Any thoughts? BobDee 

My "Joy" is unbounded. Clearly my remark about doubling the value of my wonderful Mercedes 300E was tongue in cheek, but the fact remains that I have quite distinctive number plate that presumably will stay with the car assuming the car stays in "47" possibly makes it more attractive to a local buyer.  Weird things happen in France. We live in a small hamlet. Our house has no name or number, the road or rather lane leading to our house has no name. Yet everyone knows where we live. I lost a carte grisse within a few days of getting the first car on French plates, and in no time we had a call from the local Marie saying it was being posted back to us. All this resulted in various social interchanges with the local sous prefecture and possibly, just possibly, that got me a "nice" registration for the Mercedes. Who knows? BobD

Thanks for the responses folks. The UK date coded plates is probably the reason why some people change their cars so frequently. Overall I guess it boosts the car industry. BD

I now have my two UK cars transferred to French plaques. Clearly the last 2 digits are the Department of registration, but is there any coding in the other part of the registration? The normal format seems to be four figures followed by two letters and then the department number. I was very pleased (not really sure why), that the new reg for my old (1988) Mercedes came back as two figs, two letters and the two figure departement number. It  looks great and different. No doubt it has doubled the value of the car! Regs BobD

Just a post regarding our experiences. We are UK pensioners who arrived here in late January. We visited the local Doctor to get a regular UK prescription that my Wife needs for eye drops converted for the French system. Found an excellent English speaking Doctor in Nerac (47) who gave my wife a very thorough examination, a prescription for her eye drops, the address of the local CPAM, and charged 21 Euros. We sent off our E121's to this address and about three weeks later received a letter containing our E121's (returned) and a questionaire to fill in. This was returned to the CPAM together with a requested Bank RIB, a copy of our Birth Certificates  and the E121's. Four weeks later we have now received our individual Attestations that show our French social security numbers, Also included was the "Declaration de Choix du Medicin Traitant" form. We will now visit the Doctor again with this form, or perhaps we can just post the forms and then we will hopefully get our Carte Vitales. It all takes time and I guess one should allow around three months for the whole process to complete. No doubt we could have saved a couple of weeks at least, by visiting the CPAM personally but the aggrevation of finding the offices in Agen, checking when they open etc was at least saved by the posting method.  Regs   BobD  

Thanks Sue, I did look at that site before I posted but cant see any reference to twin tank systems. Our system has a manufacturer's label... K A France, an installation date of 1984 and a statement of conformity to regs that existed at the time. BobD

Thanks for the responses re bleach etc folks. Does anyone have any more info on twin tank systems. Are they currently "approved"? Regs BobD

We moved to France just four months back and are gradually getting familier with all the wonderful differences. Our house, about 25 years old, has a fosse septique and last week we had it pumped by a local approved company, the name of which was given us by the Marie. An excellent job was done, with both tanks completely emptied and thoroughly cleaned. Tank one takes the toilet waste and tank two the waste from the kitchen and bathroom. We were told by the engineer to fill tank one with water to a depth of about 0.5 metres. Tank 2 has a fat trap which we clear about every 6 weeks. All the fosse diagrams we have seen show just a single tank for the system, but looking at the pipework and the general layout of our system while the engineer was here, it seems that our two tanks are completely separate from each other and each drains independently into a common run off or absorbtion area. Does it mean then, that we can use bleach products for the sink and bathroom that goes into tank 2, or do both tanks depend on a bacterial action for correct operation. Does any one else have a similar system? BD  

Thanks both, So just to get it 100% clear, the tax d'hab and Foncier are both due for 2007 but I dont have to do anything until the demands arrive in the Autumn. BobD  

Thanks Sue, Technically we were the owner of the house from 21st Dec 2006, arriving as I said 23rd Jan. We didnt find any tax demands amoungst all the junk in our letter box upon our arrival. . I'm all for playing the waiting game, but dont want to incurr any lateness penalties.   BobD    

Monaco, Thanks for that. I now understand that Income tax is payable after the first full year but are the "local" taxes payable at the same time or are they due before the first full year is up?   BobD

Thanks Zeb, We arrived here 23rd Jan, so we can assume that we have a full year to save up our pennies. Does this apply to local taxes as well?. I feel we should be paying something for our refuse collection etc.