Francelover

Hi Will I think in all these cases, one can only speak from personal experience. We had our motor and buildings/contents policies with AGF/Allianz and I can only say that overall their service (prior to our claim as well as during) was poor. This isn't just sour grapes because a claim was refused - I worked too long in the insurance industry to be so churlish and juvenile. I understand the philosophy of insurance and its practices. My gripe is that when a large wall comes down and blocks a public road, I expect the insurance company to take an interest and look at it themselves to ascertain the cause and their liabilities (if any). Policyholders are rarely skilled structural engineers or loss assessors/adjusters. In our case the cause could have been flood, severe icy weather and subsequent thaw or landslip - perhaps a combination of all three. Some of these were, by my interpretation, covered by the policy. However, not being an engineer neither I nor perhaps 90% of claimants, could possible say what the cause really was. That's really where professional duty of care comes in - or should so. The bottom line was that nobody at AGF, the local agency or their claims office hundreds of K away, was interested, would come and look or even discuss it. They simply said 'no' by letter based on my no doubt puerile attempts to describe the problem. Would any other insurer have behaved similarly? I don't know - my hunch (after talking to others locally) is that they would not. Does this mean that AGF everywhere would provide such service if you needed help? Don't know! As I said, just relating some facts as I experienced them. Cheers.      

Will, with respect, the system you're talking about is rapidly disappearing from France as it has almost everywhere else. Our local agency handles renewals and policies but claims are now centralised in a huge city centre office about 2 hours+ drive from here. This is now the norm with most French insurance companies. Forget the cosy chat relating to your claim over a coffee in the local tabac - for the most part you'll be dealing with a huge admin office in one of the major cities if you have to make a claim. Why should they have visited? Having worked in the UK insurance industry for many years, I will tell you. Policyholders frequently are not in a position to fully analyse and articulate the cause of the claim. Their claim may be valid or it may perhaps not be covered.  Initially, our problem due to the landslip looked severe. It's called duty of care and common 'interest' for an insurance company to send a loss adjuster or assessor out to look at the problem. Sending out a computer generated letter saying "sorry pal - not our problem and your tough luck" is not really service - in any country. In 30 years we have only ever claimed twice - once in the UK and once here. There is absolutely no resemblance whatsoever between the excellent service we received in the UK and the arrogant disinterested dismissal we received here. So, go with AGF/Allianz if you wish - but don't say you weren't warned!         

I mean 'disinterested' of course!

Worth stating the obvious but the premium isn't the only thing to worry about - you need to look carefully at what the policy covers. Earlier this year for the first time in 7 years in France, we made a claim on our propertyu insurance (AGF/Allianz) .  We had about 4 weeks of heavy snow and frost and then overnight a sudden thaw. This resulted in a minor flood and tiny land slip that knocked down a section of a grarden wall. OK - it wasn't a fortune, only 600euros to sort out in the end. Our claim was rejected because "these circumstances aren't covered by the policy". Technically, they were right. The policy does cover exceptional weather circumstances but you can only claim that if the Meteo in Paris has issued an exceptional weather notice for your area in the departement. AGF were totally unhelpful, rude and disintered - they didn't even visit. So, the moral of the tale is: don't use AGF/Allianz check carefully the policy details - whoever you use.      

Sorry - can't help with that one! Cheers

Very familiar stories. Never got to that level with us but we have had lots of trouble with tax demands. In 2006 we got a snotty letter saying we hadn't paid (true - but we had already notified them that we hadn't received a demand and asked them to sort it out and said we were waiting for notification of the amount). We went to the local office where they rather sniffily said they couldn't understand why we hadn't got the demand and showed us a copy. The demand had, in fact, been sent to our old UK address where we had not lived since 2002 - four years previously. We asked how they could get the address right for 2003-2005 AND on the snotty chasing letter but not on the demand itself.  No answer, apology or even recognition that they'd done anything wrong. In 2008 the demand arrived at the correct address - but was now addressed to my mother in law! So far, we have not received the bill due at the start of this year and are trying to find out what's happened to it. No dount it's gone back t our old 2002 address again.  It is a genuine shambles and frankly, a disgrace. Nobody seems to know or care. Many French people seem to acept this sort of event and service rather fatalistically in terms of c'est la vie.  It's a pity really.           

Interesting how different people have different experiences. Our kids came here at age 5-6 and started at brilliant local primary school. They really liked it and all the kids seemed to get on fine. We worked hard on that, getting the kids together for birthday parties with ours etc. Our kids were happy and seemed to do well. We always made a point of trying to chat with other parents and that seemed to help. There were a few minor issues with them being mocked for their accents and being different but this was really a tiny minority (often the kids that were disruptive in other respects also) and our kids seemed indifferent to it.  Kids can be pretty mean to each other in any country and for any reason - as earlier posts have said. I would rate the primary school in our village several notches above the one we left behind in the UK so long ago. Parent teacher evenings were great, teachers worked hard and are contientious etc et. When they moved to college, things became a little tougher but not horribly so. Oddly, there have been issues at the college between kids from different local villages and loyalties have split along those lines (and led to friction) rather than between local French and incomers. Our kids are in the 'our village' camp in college not a British minority camp. There are a very few of the kids that make infrequent anti-foreigner remarks but it seems minor so far as we can tell - mainly because they're too busy fighting with the kids from other villages to bother about the foreigners. Our kids are doing well and seem happy. They're always keen to get to school and have fun so we have no major cause for concerns (at the mo) and they've been in the system for about 7-8 years. My daughter, for example, is always in the top 2 in the class for French which is a real achievement. We have never detected the slightest indication of anti-British bias or racism in staff at either school and the kids have never complained of it either. We're in the "very happy" camp with the college who, like the primary school, have worked hard and above the call of duty to help our kids get on. My only concern at the college is chronic absenteeism. In the UK this is normally a problem with some kids - in France it seems endemic in the teaching side. In two full years at the college I doubt if our kids have ever completed a full fortnight without interruption due to teacher strikes or unplanned absences etc. It is a terrible problem here and somebody needs to get to grips with it. To finish off and paint the other side of the picture - I have a mate who is a prof at a lycee not too far away.  He told me a few months back of a man (Englishman) who started thumping the prof's desk saying it was disgraceful that the Lycee wasn't arranging for English translations to be made available of the course material to help his child "settle in". I guess it depends on your experiences how you see things. We've been happy so far and more importantly, so are the kids.         

Yep, I agree 100% with your conclusion. In terms of English (or Scottish - we've lived in both ) villages though, I'm not sure I completely agree. In large parts of the South East, South West and some parts of the sothern Midlands, the villages are largely dormitories for London. Monday-Friday they're often deserted during the day as people commute off. However, in the evenings and the weekends, a lot of people make a lot of effort to try and create some sort of participative community spirit. The pub is often central to this but even small villages have a plethora of clubs and associations. Rambling, badminton, bowls, WI, fishing clubs - I could go on. In a tiny rural village in Perthsire (c800 people) there was a golf club, a badminton club, two well-frequented pubs, fishing clubs, a wallking club etc etc etc.  We've found similar sort of activities wherever we've lived whether the village was a 'true' rural community or one of the sometimes slightly more artrifical dormitory types in the home counties. Now you can see this all cynically as being false and plastic - a rather sad attempt to re-create some sort of 19th century idyll that in fact never really existed to begin with or you can see it all as genuine and sincere. You can also choose to ignore it or participate - that's up to the individual. My point is that if you're the type of person that really enjoys that sort of environment and "integrating" with it when you move, then in France you're going to find a bit of a shock becaus it doesn't (generally) exist. The reasons for that are those you quoted above. I have seen some new arrivals really struggle with this as they charged about trying to 'join in'.  The point is that there's often little tangible to join in with. Cheers   

Welcome! I don't think you'll find yourself pressurised to join in. In general, French people seem inclined to leave other people alone to do what they want in peace and quiet. The local mayor told me once that in France the most important rights residents have is to tranquillity and privacy. It's more often those incomers that want to suddenly become the life and soul of the local community that find it difficult - not because the locals resist but rather more because the things they're trying to integrate with just don't exist here! Note though - this is more of a comment on rural and small town France than the larger cities where things may be different. We like the local French culture and society. It suits us and I'm sure it will you too!  

[quote user="Panda"][quote user="Francelover"] Interesting point about women. Don't want to walk into a minefield here but one of the biggest differences I've noticed between rural France and rural UK is the attitude (or apparent attitude) of women - I'm a man I need to admit. [/quote] Yes, tt used to make my blood boil, I would walk into a builders merchants and start talking about requirements, I would invaribly have a random man with me, either OH or other of our Brit friends who needed me to put across what exactly they wanted as their french was not good enough, the pillock behind the counter would address them with the answers depsite it being me doing the talking!!  I found chavinism to be alive and doing well in France and was expected to be the little woman.  It's not something I have ever experienced in the UK and found it shocking.  Lack of aspiration is not a girl only thing, in rural france they are tuaght not to expect too much of life as jobs are scarce etc. it was one of my other issues, I want my son to achieve everything he can not to listen to his prof talking about the army or a manual job to his peers. Hmm, good for society, not sure about that, its an interesting point of view, I guess it could be and in a country where work is very scarce i guess halving those looking for work maybe the right thing epspecially since then you have someone to care for the kids etc..  [/quote] Yes, it's just different here and sometimes expectations are set low for both males and females I agree. It is a very chauvanistic society. Example? A month or so back the kids in college were given the chance to take some moped riding lesson under tuition in the college. The two instructors had four bikes. Two were described as "too powerful for girls" and were restricted to the boys. My daughter was furious (I'm going to complain after the rentrée) but she also said that only she and one other girl were upset. All the others thought this was quite normal and that she was silly for getting upset about it.   It's interesting though about women here. What's funny is that sometimes in the UK you can be speaking to a young stay-at-home Mum and you get the feeling that there's a slight conflict. However much they say they're content, you get the feeling that many feel that they've somehow 'failed' to manage to juggle kids and career. It's slight but it's often there. Yet in France, I just don't sense that at all when listening to many women. Many aspire to stay at home with the children and many resent sometimes needing to work even part time to supplement the family income. I think that motherhood is still seen as a valued ideally full-time profession here whereas in the UK we've managed to make it into something that women must somehow squeeze into an already full professional life. Does that affect society? Don't know - I think it does. I'm not saying it's good or bad but many family events here are notable for what appears (though appearances can be deceptive) to be the very harmonious families. Not sure when I last remember seeing, for example, the bulk of husbands and wives of all ages walking along holding hands with each other and the kids at the same time. Very common around here to see that. We too worry about the effect of the culture though on the aspirations of our kids. Not obvious signs of a problem yet but...........something to keep an eye on I think.            

Interesting and some good tips I think. I guess there's a slight danger of running into the "no man's an island" syndrome. Being fairly ring-fenced and self-sufficient is fine until maybe one needs held and support (sort of thing many local people would get from their family) and you suddenly find that nobody locally's ever heard of you! It also runs contrary to the theroey, at least, of the French communcal system. Generally though, I agree. I sometimes see relatively new arrivals flogging themselves because they're struggling to "integrate" and re-create the bread and cake village hall baking sessions of their old UK village life. I just get the sense that it doesn't exist here so there's nowt to integrate with in that context. Moral? Take the flow as it comes and don't try and force the pace.      

Interesting point about women. Don't want to walk into a minefield here but one of the biggest differences I've noticed between rural France and rural UK is the attitude (or apparent attitude) of women - I'm a man I need to admit. Many local girls of my daughter's age appear to have absolutely no interest in much other than getting married as soon as they can and starting a family. There's nothing wrong with that but it is so different to the UK. Might be good for society though, in one way, because to my eyes at least, France is so much more a young-family country than is much of the UK now. You also see young families out apparently enjoying themselves much more than in the UK. Not sure that I see the neighbours thing as being deep or shallow. I think it's a question that most French households (I think in the small towns as well as the villages - can't speak for the big cities) are simply culturally more self-contained than they are in the UK. They don't seem to feel the need to get 'next door' in for a coffee and gossip as much as is the case in the UK. I know at least some that find the British habit of trying to get them to come round periodically for a coffee or apperatives to be a bit strange and maybe 'pushy' if basically friendly. This can also affect kids though. Example - our children virtually never see their French pals on Sundays because so many are either going to see family or are having family around and they are expected to spend their time with their family not their friends. Very very different to the UK and I know can make some incomers feel isolated and 'failures' in terms of integration. Like I said, I don't think that you can ever integrate in UK terms because there jusr aren't the same social structures to integrate with.        

Probably a long shot but is there anyone in the South West (LANDES) or close areas that is looking to move to the North West of France? Might be a way of bypassing the sluggish market. We're about 40 mins from Mont St Michel, an hour from the port at St Malo and 2 From Caen/Ouistreham.  Dinard airport (flights to Stanstead and East Midlands) is about 1 hour away. Just a thought!

Hi, I got a thoroughly justified telling-office for taking another thread off-topic so decided to share a thought or two under this perhaps more appropriate heading. My observations here are personal, I don't claim they apply en-masse to expats, the French or France!  It's just a sharing of perceptions. In our area (ther North West) there are numbers of British incomers.  I know many and most at least claim to have moved here primarily to change their lifestyle and experience something of French life and culture. I don't know a single one that has moved here just to get a bigger house and garden. Many, like ourselves, threw themselves headlong into trying to integrate. They joined the local societies, attended the local social events, got the nighbours round, started businesses, got into the French social, health and taxation systems, got their kids through school and college etc etc.  We have lived here more than 7 years and are happy as are many of the other expats we know (almost all in fact). Yet many feel they haven't fully integrated and I know some people cite a lack of integration as a reason they want to go back home (I only know of two faimies here that've moved back to the UK). My own personal experience is that one has to 're-define' integration in terms of French life. In the UK this often means bar-b-q with the neighbours, coffee mornings, shared trips with mates to the pub, girls' night out etc! In France, in my opinion, this definition can't apply - at least in rural France. In our area, virtually all socialising between French people is amongst the extended family. There are very few neighbours (French with French) that socialise to the same extent as neighbours in many areas of the UK. It's often restricted to a few words over a hedge in the morning. Some of the men may share a small beer or two in the local tabac but even that's rare. There are some annual social events in the local halls organised by the commune - they're well attended by locals and newcomers. They're also few in number. Local people around here are very friendly but they're also very reserved - that applies equally to everyone including French newcomers (with whom they're often even more reserved than they are with foreigners) Many local people tell me they find the incomer attitude to socialising and 'integration' to be a little bit intimidating. They just don't operate to the same cultural expectations.    I think the point is, that integration here just isn't the same thing as integration in the UK. If you have just moved to France or are considering doing so and have the expectation of being able to re-create that cosy small village atmosphere that can exist in some English or Scottish villages/Towns (can't speak for Wales or NI!) - then you'll probably fail and be disappointed. It's just 'different' here and you have to go with the flow. May not apply everywhere of course but around here I think it's generally true. Cheers.   

[quote user="Russethouse"]  Francelover - I think this forum has existed 10 or 11 years now, over that period there have several posts by people who have moved to France never having set a foot on French soil before....not everyone comes for the  Frenchway of life......[:)] A change in their way of life, yes...but thats different [/quote] Hi RH Yes, I'm sure you're right. I think the point I was trying to make is that equally not all expats came here simply to get a bigger house and garden. Just as an aside, our last 2-3 houses in the UK were all significantly larger than our house here. I know quite a few expats in this area (I don't claim that to be representative of all Brits in France!!!) and I don't know any that moved here for bricks-n-mortar reasons. I know many (us included) sincerely wanted to experience the French way of life and culture.  Actually, many have failed to do so but I think the reasons for that are complicated and I may start another thread on that one. You're also 100% right that changing your lifestyle isn't the same thing as trying to engage in a French one. Cheers.   

Y'know, a number of these forums (which should be very useful and a rational exchange of perhaps diverse views) become eventually simply a clique where new members are suspected and patronised and any views that doesn't "match" the prevailing culture are ridiculed and subject to sarcasm and dismissal. It's the "you"ve only been a member for 6 weeks so you can't know what you're talking about" syndrome. I joined to try and offer some hopefully helpful observations and personal opinions. I have never said that my views cover all of France, are necessarily right for everyone or are a guide for life in France. To the contrary, if you read my relatively few early posts, I have tried sincerely to be balanced and objective. I therefore believe some of the above responses are unnecessarily dismissive, patronising and disproportionate. For info, I have lived here for 7-8 years with my family. Run a business (as does my wife) and our children are going through the educational system here having been through primary and now well into college (certainly not a perfect system but many many schools in the UK are a disaster area). We also have extensive experience of the French health and social security systems and are fully integrated into the French taxation system.  That sort of experience is either welcomed when making a contribution or can be seen as utterly irrelevent simply because my opinions don't fit with expectations or because I haven't served the pre-requisite "time in the job" qualification period on the site. Pity if it's the latter. OP - VERY sorry, you're quite right. I and others lost the plot a bit on the original thread. Apologies!              

Hi That's really surpised me.  Maybe it's just that in this area we don't have much worth stealing! Actually, that's a bit tongue-in-cheek. There have been a few break-ins over the past 7-8 years in the area but as far as I know, they've all been resticted to small shops and in one case, the local college. I have been told that sheds and sometimes entered and tools taken but as I said, the house with an alarm in our area is a real rarity.  The locals don't regard it as a significant problem. For example, you'll still see cars left unlocked with keys and sometimes contents in etc. Cheers.

I think the bigger property thing is a bit cynical and dismissive of many Brits' reasons for coming to France. I'm sure you're right for some no doubt but I think many are here to change their quality of life in many ways and not just to get an extra 100m2 of living space. Many seems to genuinely wish to experience France and French life Speaking personally, I haven't yet met a Brit that wants to go abck to the UK for any reason other than: they can't make a living here due to the language and employment position; some have missed family/friends some are worried about what they'll do as they get older and frailer. Don't know any that are rushing back because they miss it so much!

Not sure about this. If the UK and France were much of a muchness apart from language, a few different food items in the shops and a bit warmer weather, what are we all doing living here? I'll add my pennyworth to OG's point. In the UK we've lived in town centres and rural locations. Few purely personal observations as someone that was born and raised in the very centre of London. I wouldn't walk about in the banlieus of Paris at night or many of the London estate areas but the difference is that I feel safe on the streets of central Paris at night where I most certainly don't on the equivalent streets of my home town; In our area, I don't know of anyone that has or needs an alarm. Crime is rare, burglary very much so and valdalism is completely unheard of. Our French friends and neighbours simply can't grasp how things could be different even though they see it on the TV; In beautiful rural Scotland with no 'bad area' anywhere close, EVERY house had an alarm and the few that didn't were burgled without fail. Our garden was vandalised 3 times in 12 months, children's toys stolen from the garden etc In a nice part of Leamington Spa, one Sunday afternoon in broad daylight every single pot plant from outside every single house in the street was stolen (nobody saw a thing). We were broken into twice. Anyone compared the French health system and the NHS? Many of the social problems of the big French conurbations haven't migrated out into the suburbs and rural France (yet at least) whereas even some small town or village centres in areas of the UK are now as bad as the big city centres. I could go on! France isn't perfect or heaven on Earth (taxes, some prices, appalling service culture etc) but the quality of here is, for many, I think much higher than the UK. Don't get me wrong, I'm an Englishman and proud of it but I'm not 100% sure that the England (or Britain) I think of really exists anymore - if it ever did. So, I'll cheer on England in sports but overall - vive la France!        

Yes, I agree. French buyers generally don't want older properties at almost any price. Interesting that you've had a couple of offers turned down.  I haven't heard that here for many years now. I think financing is absolutely right.  Foreign buyers have vanished here since the end of 2007. That's partly due to a collapse of confidence, partly due to some buyers waiting to see where the market will bottom and finance. Relocators can't free up their equity from their UK homes and getting a mortgage is tough. Not sure where it will all end!     

Interesting comments though I see several along th lines of "you need to find the market value of your house". Although I agree in principle, I must disagree in terms of much practice. I do not know a single seller around here (French or British) who has turned down an offer.  Many Immos are saying (correctly I think) that right now price isn't an issue because there are simply no buyers to sell to. One told me that right now the very few buyers around are offering anywhere between 25-50% below the advertised price (if they offer at all). Of course, you can't even be 'reasonable' and reduce your price radically if there's nobody there to talk to. I can't speak for other regions but around here there is no evidence I can see of UK sellers trying to 're-create' the good old days of the 80s and 90s and trying to make huge year-on-year profits when they try to sell.  Most aren't idiots and realise it's tough and a buyer's dream market. Many I know have made massive reductions in their asking prices and still can't get viewers along. Some are prepared to take very substantial losses on the sale versus original buying price and STILL can't find anyone to even look. It comes back to my basic point, right now in this area there are simply no buyers for these older rural or semi-rural properties. I think the mistake many incomers made was not over price but over saleability. The fact is, if yo purchased a house that had stood empty for 10 years, then even with renovation, was there any reason to think it would ever be more saleable in future? I suspect the historians will have fun analysing and writing this all up one day!    

Well, yes, you could be right but on the other hand they don't hesitate to cover the UK market doldrums when they happen and the advertisers there must be far more important to them in revenue terms than the relatively niche French or overseas markets. In the case of France, I suspect the comparative silence in terms of this story is probably more to do with a Paris-centric preoccupation than anything else. It's odd though because even in the regions this story (if you believe it is a story) just is never covered - or at least not that I've seen. Maybe nobody cares!

Forgot to say......... It's not only foreigners that own older property. I know of several cases where French families own and reside in older property and are desperate to sell for career move and other reasons. Some have been trying and failing for literally years to sell and this is having a significant social impact on some families and their professional acitivites. Taking us back to the start - this is what puzzles me. I see virtually no discussion of this in either the French or British media but it is a big subject and affecting hundreds of thousands of British and French sellers (who in turn, are potential buyers).  Many chains just can't get started yet the only coverage in the media is how well apartment sales are doing in Paris or Lyon etc. Odd!      

Sounds like we're all pretty much agreeing with each other! Around here, some French people sometimes complain that it's now impossible to buy older properties for renovation as they're all being or have been snapped up by the etrangers. That's manifestly wrong (virtually no older properties have been purchased around here since mid 2007 and many still remain needing purchase and renovation).  Our property had stood empty for 2 years before we purchased it. Another one not too far away was purchased by Brits having been empty for 15 years and yet another I know of had been empty for 20. I know one family who purchased and renovated a house that had stood empty since approximately 1950. I think these facts, plus common observation, suggests that French buyers just don't want older properties whether they're renovated or not.  There are a few exceptions (coastal properties, chic city centres etc) but it's generally true. Many have told me that they love 'the dream' of owning a period house but then they get frightened by the thought of the maintenance and running costs. Odd really - given the poor condition of many newer low-quality builds I've seen!  Once many French buyers see 'pre war' on a description they simply start looking elsewhere. It's a pity really - for a number of reasons.  One of which is that when the Brits, Irish and other non-French buyers vanish, there is simply no residual French demand to even partly take up the slack.  It's why great sections of the French property market are totally dead and why so many Brits that want or need to go home, just simply can't.  Those that regarded their French property as a second holiday home and investment may be particularly stuck because their capital not only isn't likely to grow but in fact reduce - and they can't liquidate it anyway. Sad world n'est pas?           

We're in La Mayenne - Pays de La Loire. Comment on photos - it's really tricky to be objective.  I have never seen a 100% perfect house.  We never try and use 'creative' phtography but that's not quite the same thing as saying that we'd expect anyone to take photos of all the negatives of their property and publish those as prominently as the positives. The Immos could do more of course. Many have simply no idea at all of how to sell in a buyers' market.   Cheers.