Smokers marginalised

[Chancer]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2008/08/08/noindex/cigar.xml&CMP=EMC-expat2008

I am an ex smoker, albeit 27 years ago and hence fiercely anti-fumeur but I didnt know whether to laugh or cry at the above.

Here in France near me there is (was) a lovely bar in a small hamlet with a sun terrace overlooking the river somme, it was a marvellous place to go for an apero to watch the sun go down, OK there were always several smokers there as the place doubled as a tabac and magazine/fishing tackle shop but they tended to avoid the terrace and prefer to congregate at the bar chatting to the smoking owner.

I discussed the forthcoming smoking ban with the owners who told me "thank god we have your terrace" which was a bad omen for me, they used "your" as I was pretty much the only customer to use it, I didnt have the heart to tell them that it was to avoid the smoke.

I have returned there twice since, the first time they had completely enclosed the terrace so instead of sitting outside it was sitting inside looking out of glazed panels and of course nowhere for the smoke to escape. It was being used as the smoking area but I did notice that one or two people were gradually encroaching on the bar area.

The second time I was passing and saw many smokers leaning outside as is now typical in the area, I thought perhaps they have been stopped from using the terrace for smokers (to comply with the law it should not be enclosed, they had done the opposite) so I went in for a beer to see what had become of "my terrace".

I was completely shocked, the place was heaving, at least 10 times the amount of customers that I have ever seen in the place but they were all smoking, the now enclosed terrace was still officially the smoking area but the whole bar was also packed with smokers, there were cendriers on every table and spaced every 1/2 meter on the bar top, the owner and his wife were chain smoking behind the bar.

A loss for me certainly but the owners have done really well by being the only bar in the region to openly ignore the smoking ban.

Has anyone else experienced this in their region?

I am beginning to think that it would be better to have completely seperate smoking or non smoking bars and restaurants at least then I wont have to push my way through the fog to enter somewhere or endure it while waiting to be seated at a table.

[Cendrillon]

The shop / bar in our Fr. village seems to have made its own rules and the regulars can quite often be seen having a quick smoke at the bar there. The owner is an ex flic

[Tony F Dordogne]

About time too, rather than us non-smokers being marginalised.

[AnOther]

Isn't this just another example of the 'French way' ?

Sign up for everything but only actually observe and comply with the bits we like, i.e. not to our detriment [Www]

If smokers do feel persecuted then tough, it's about time that the glove was on the other foot, if people want to destroy their lungs and general health that is their business but the right to breath clean air completely and unequivocally outranks any supposed 'right' to pollute it [:P] 

 

[Callie]

There was an item on TF1 news last night about a bar in Germany that is allowed to have smokers.  The reason for this is that it appealed to the constitutional court in Karlruhe who found in favour of small bars who would not have to space to divide into two rooms.

Although an avid non-smoker, I cannot see the logic in having a bar/tabac that can't allow smokers inside.  Also, the small village cafes are the meeting place of, particular older, members of the commune.  If the owner and bar staff smoke, apart from thelaw (!), where is problem?

On the subject of terraces :  interesting development, Ernie.  Now that summer's here (is it?) it is no longer possible for non- smokers to enjoy a meal outside on the terrace without having to suffer smoke.  As for the people spilling out of shops onto the streets......  But personally, I have never been against a separate room/dining room for smokers, but merely assigning smoking and non-smoking areas in one room is totally unacceptable for non-smokers.

[AnOther]

I believe that in The Netherlands infamous 'brown cafes' smoking is still pemitted but only on the basis that the traditional 'product' is not adulterated with tabacco !

An eminently pragmtic solution I'd say and one which is probably not too injurous to profits either [;-)]

Still, think I'll stick with the Space Cake though [6]

On terraces, we noticed this in UK where the small but pleasant outside seating area at our local became a complete no go area when the ban came in. As vehemently anti smoking as I am I still believe a better scheme would have been to have an allocated smoking room rather than the outright blanket ban.

 

[Hagar]

Personally I think that Spain have it about right.

As I understand it the owners have the choice and the whole establishment is either smoking or non-smoking.

You know this before you choose to enter - and certainly in Barcelona there seems to be plenty choice either way.

rgds

Hagar 

[Iceni]

[quote user="Callie"]
Although an avid non-smoker, I cannot see the logic in having a bar/tabac that can't allow smokers inside. 
[/quote]

I agree Callie. As another non-smoker I have no objection to smokers being allowed in - as long as they don't smoke in there.

Much to my surprise all the bars/restos (that I have visited) in this area are now non-smoking. Some have even chiselled years of nicotine and tar from the ceilings etc. I have no idea whether turnover and/or profits have dropped but they all seem as busy as ever. No doubt time will tell.

John

[odile]

The 'Loi Evin' was actually pased in 1991, requesting eparate areas for smokers in all public places. The French totally ignores it 'en masse' and there was nothing the authorities could do. Other lobbies in France regularly do the same, hunters have blatantly ignored new laws or change of dates, again 'en masse' - again as they've worked out that if enough people do it (or don;t do it) they will be protected and hidden by the huge numbers. I am actually amazed that the majority of French people seem to have actually done more or less, generally, what the new smoking laws require. Long may it last.

[Judith]

When the law was passed here in the UK last year, I was broadly in agreement, not that I frequent pubs very much, but I do prefer my restaurants without smoking.  However, I am not now sure whether it was such a good idea, as now I have to run the gauntlet of the smokers cabal outside every building I pass (which in Central London is very many!).  I even see that the pub opposite has taken over the outside space which we used to enjoy for our sit in the sun of an evening, for the smokers, and very noisy it now is too!