how long would you still silent?

[Bugsy]

Not first hand knowledge BoF, thats a silly thing to say, but given the two comments below together with the surgeons statement on the news last night, I know which version I'm leaning towards.

"The BBC also spoke to Marwan Abu Rida, a paramedic with the

Palestinian Red Crescent, who says he was called to the site at 0810

local time (0610 GMT).

But he says he came under fire as he tried to reach it, and was

trapped in a house nearby until 2000 (1800 GMT) because of Israeli

shooting.

He said that when he reached the location he found the dead

woman, Rawhiya, who appeared to have been shot in the head, as well as

the younger woman who was injured. "

"In a written response to the incident, the Israeli military

said: "An initial inquiry into the allegation raised by B'tselem has

concluded that the claims are without foundation."

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Scooby"][quote user="Boiling a frog"]

Bearing in mind that these claims have not been verified and to continue with the scenario

Several people are lobbing rocks from your neighbours garden  into your garden damaging your house and narrowly missing your dog who could have been killed by a large rock.You cannot use your garden for fear of being injured......+And so it continues. Perhaps one day the English person and his neighbour will be able to talk to one another but in the meantime each insist they are only defending themselves. 

[/quote]

Seems to miss the point that you hadn't lived in the house for long...you squatted and threw the previous residents (your neighbour's entire family) out of the house onto the streets, despite the fact they had lived in that house for generations.  Then you tried to do the same with your neighbour - so you could have a bigger garden.  That's why your neighbour started throwing stones.

[/quote]

Our ancestors lived on the land where our house is now built until they were driven out by ancestors of our neighbour in approx 628 AD  and they then took over our land.

In 1948 we negotiated with the maire and the maire came up with a plan .He decided that the land should be divided with our now neighbours being allowed to keep part of  the land  and with us regaining some of  our original land.

We agreed to this proposal.The neighbours did not but with the agreement of the Maire we occupied our land.

Since then there has been occasional skirmishes with our neighbors but we have always won.  

 

So the picture you paint is not factually correct Scooby, we did not throw them out into the street we did not squat, we came to an agreement with the Maire to only occupy part of our land but our neighbours wanted to keep all the land that they stole many generations ago.

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Bugbear"]
I certainly have no bias, but I am struggling with the shooting, at close range,  yesterday of an old woman (in the head) and a young girl (in the thigh) by a israeli tank machine gun when they were leaving a building under a white flag having been asked to leave by the israelis.
This is not propaganda and has been verified by independant sources.

Gary.
[/quote]

 

That was your first statement, pretty unequivical, this incident happened, it has been verified

 

Then you change your mind when I quote BBC news

You now say

Not first hand knowledge BoF, thats a silly thing to say, but given the two comments below together with the surgeons statement on the news last night, I know which version I'm leaning towards.

So now you are not quite as certain [8-)]

[Frederick]

The one thing I have noticed over the years of conflict that has raged over this issue is a change in the way this ongoing war is carried out now...In the past the first few rounds fired at arab soldiers /civilians would have resulted in them fleeing from the area.. In the six day war the battlefield was littered in boots where they had been discarded so they could run faster..There apears now to be from the arab side a greater determination to fight back ..Arab armies are trained by us and the USA now and kitted out by the west with very sifisticated weapons ..If I were Isreali I would be worried and want to talk to Hamas before they grow in numbers and get more of their neighbors with armies on their side ...What is happening in Gaza is making that day arrive sooner ...the Arabs might just not be a push over next time .

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"][quote user="Bugbear"]
I certainly have no bias, but I am struggling with the shooting, at close range,  yesterday of an old woman (in the head) and a young girl (in the thigh) by a israeli tank machine gun when they were leaving a building under a white flag having been asked to leave by the israelis.
This is not propaganda and has been verified by independant sources.

[/quote]

That was your first statement, pretty unequivical, this incident happened, it has been verified

Then you change your mind when I quote BBC news

You now say

Not first hand knowledge BoF, thats a silly thing to say, but given the two comments below together with the surgeons statement on the news last night, I know which version I'm leaning towards.

So now you are not quite as certain [8-)]

[/quote]

I haven,t changed my mind at all, you just haven,t understood what I said. Try reading it again, slowly.

I'll give you a clue

"This is not propaganda and has been verified by independant sources"

.

edit: This probably hasn't happened either

 

.

 

[JMB]

Of course this little fracas could benifit all you guys gals with uk pension funds.Uk companies exported a credit crunch busting £18,847,795 worth of military hardware to Israel in the last 3 months of 2008. Thats compared with £7,500,000 for the whole of 2007. So I suppose that a bit of all your pensions are invested in stalwarts like BaE so a lot of you may be doing very well thank you out of the popping of a few Hamas supporters.  

[Ron Avery]

Glad you think that the wholesale slaughter of women and children is just popping of a few Hammas supporters[:@]

[JMB]

Well ron. If you feel so strongly why don't you get out there and join the Hamas freedom fighters or don't you have the that sort of commitment.

[woolybanana]

JMB, as a Palestinian whose distant family is dying in Gaza and who has already given of his blood I regard your comment as being somewhere beneath the level of the lowest defecatory residue of the lowest, most reprehensible creature in creation.

[Christine Animal]

Just ignore him, smells rather Trolly, otherwise noone could say such things.

 

[JMB]

Well woolyperson why aren't you out there giving some back up. There is a lot of talk but no action. But then you may not have the backbone for that sort of thing. Talking and doing are miles apart.

[Scooby]

BoF - as I recall the land of Canaan was taken by the Israelis by force in the first instance...remember Joshua and the battle of Jericho?

[JMB]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]

Just ignore him, smells rather Trolly, otherwise noone could say such things.

 

[/quote]

Of course Ms animal anything that smacks of the truth, is kind of unacceptable to the sort of person who supports terrorist activity. Why don,t you visit Israel and see what it is like to be on the receiving end of a terrorist rocket.

[Scooby]

Now which terrorism is this JMB - the one where you booby trap the bodies of dead British soldiers??

Ps I have visited Israel and my memories are of swish stone buildings in the Jewish quarter and abject poverty in the Arab quarter.....

[JMB]

So what. There are always winners and losers.

[Scooby]

You mean you are not completely au fait with how Israel got its independent status?  Shame on you JMB.  I'm sure Frederick will enlighten you....

[krusty]

[quote user="Scooby"]

Ps I have visited Israel and my memories are of swish stone buildings in the Jewish quarter and abject poverty in the Arab quarter.....
[/quote]

Abject poverty ? .........what have they done with all the money handed to them ?

 The Palestinian Authority (PA) has received unprecedented financial support from the international community. According to the World bank , USD $929 million were given by the international community to the PNA in 2001, $891 million in 2003 and $1.1 billion in 2005 (representing 53% of the budget  in 2005). The main objectives are support to the budget, development  aid and public health . In 2003, the US funded $224 million, the EU $187 million, the Arab League $124 million, Norway $53 million, the World Bank $50 million, the United Kingdom $43 million, Italy $40 million, and the last $170 million by others.

[Scooby]

I said Israel, Krusty.  Clearly you have never been......

[JMB]

[quote user="Scooby"]You mean you are not completely au fait with how Israel got its independent status?  Shame on you JMB.  I'm sure Frederick will enlighten you....
[/quote]

Yes but they got it and now they will do their best to keep it. I really hope that they leave a unforgetable footprint on gaza, one that the terrorists and those that protect and shelter them will remember for the rest of their lives.

[Scooby]

[quote user="JMB"]

Yes but they got it and now they will do their best to keep it. I really hope that they leave a unforgetable footprint on gaza, one that the terrorists and those that protect and shelter them will remember for the rest of their lives.[/quote]

Not a lot to say to that JMB - hanged by your own words.................

[JMB]

Thats your view  which I respect. But I do think that as you all feel strongly you should cut the jaw jaw and do your bit for the terrorist cause of which you seem so supportive. Off to bed now it's all a bit boring.

[Scooby]

It's sad that the deaths of so many innocents are boring you JMB.  Funny that you are still under the misapprehension that only Hamas uses terrorist activities.  The state of Israel was founded as a result of the terrorist activities of the (now) Israelis.  So I say again - which terrorism are you referring to??

As I have said before - my (more distant) family are Jewish and I have been brought up with the belief that 'God blesses those who bless the Jews' - experience has taught me to challenge this dogma.

As an aside it's interesting that the situations in Zimbabwe and Tibet haven't provoked similar discussion on here...

[Scooby]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/un-israelis-hit-our-headquarters-in-gaza-with-white-phosphorus-shells-14142716.html - completely against the Geneva convention. 

It will be very interesting to see how Obama deals with this (as a non Jew and non Christian - Zionist or otherwise).  One feels the Israelis are trying maximise their impact before Obama is officially sworn in.

[Frenchie]

Now they 've really gone wild, far far out of  " the  limits"...

There was a jourtnalist on france2 tonight who was very angry as he was in the hospital that was bombed and said " now it is high time political men stop talking and ACT " !!!!

 

[krusty]

So many are hoping for some miracle from Obama .

He has already stated his views , this from June last year.

"Barack Obama has pledged unwavering support for Israel in his first foreign policy speech since declaring himself the Democratic nominee for president.

He told the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac), a prominent lobbying group, that Israel's security was "sacrosanct" and "non-negotiable". "