TWO BOYS CHARGED WITH ATTEMPTED MURDER

[hakunamatata]

We have seen all this before i.e. the Bulger case.  These two, if proven guilty, will get a slap on the wrist followed by new identities for themselves and their families and will be moved by the British taxpayer to a more luxurious and probably warm climate to spend the rest of their days in comfort.  What is wrong with the legal system in the UK? What is wrong with some of the young people in the UK? Is it t.v or video games? We were not angels but we didnt kill people, we didnt carry weapons, we had imagination and played games, we made our own enjoyment. There were no youth clubs and organised summer camps etc in our day so why do the youngsters need it now? 

There is another thing on the news tonight which is annoying me (got to get it of the old chest) Children in care in 1970 or 80 were given sedatives which they now claim are affecting their offspring.  Well thats what care homes did in those days to calm down disruptive children, so I suppose now we are in for another blitz of compensation claims.  Where will it all end?

 

Right got that off my chest enough said.

[Clarkkent]

Are you sure you are comfortable living in France? The age of criminal responsibility is 10 in England, in France it is 17. (See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy)

And what would you do? Take children and spend the next 60 years abusing them (or perhaps just eliminate them) or would you try to undo the damage that something has done to them? Do you really believe that the Bulger case boys just received a slap on the wrist? When you were young children were occasionally behaving like these latest boys, there just wasn't a voracious sensation-driven press out to make every penny it could.

As for the second case, the BBC report that 10 girls in one particular children's home, where they were given large cocktails of tranquillising drugs to control their behaviour, have had children with birth abnormalities. Did you give your children (if you have any) Mogadon or benzodiazapines to keep them quiet? I have no idea whether or not the drugs did cause the birth abnormalities, but using them was not appropriate.

I, too, am disturbed by both these reports but I try to be rational in my response to them.

[Ron Avery]

I was going to say not another doom and gloom UK press correspondent on here, but heh ho lets all worry about the poor and deprived in the UK and not what is happening in France like mothers being killed by their sons for being too religeous. 

Anyway, to get Clarks point about the BBC report in perspective, lets add a few more words eh?

"As for the second case, the BBC report that allegedly 10 girls out of hundreds that had stayed in one particular children's home (and thousands of others who had been in care in the 1980's), where they were allegedly given large cocktails of tranquillising drugs to control their behaviour, have had children with birth "abnormalities" which are not detailed any further.  Of course the odds of this happening anyway and the medical histories of these children is not detailed as it might spoil a good yarn.

Bit like the cancer yarn on Newsnight, "70 % of adults in the UK are not changing their lifestyles to avoid cancer, apart from stopping smoking" but  in the small print this was a survey of 1002 people out of 60 odd million in the UK!!!![:-))]. 

Motto for BBC News editors, if news is in short supply, make it up.[:P]

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Clarkkent"]

As for the second case, the BBC report that 10 girls in one particular children's home, where they were given large cocktails of tranquillising drugs to control their behaviour, have had children with birth abnormalities. Did you give your children (if you have any) Mogadon or benzodiazapines to keep them quiet? I have no idea whether or not the drugs did cause the birth abnormalities, but using them was not appropriate.

I, too, am disturbed by both these reports but I try to be rational in my response to them.

[/quote]

Couldn't agree more Supe. (Sorry: I always think of Richard Prior, the self-effacing IT whiz!).

I was prescribed both Mogadan and later, once, Benzodiazapines: and with the latter, after I checked the possible side-effects and their addictive tendancy, chucked 'em where the sun don't shine: and pulled the lever.................................

Highly dangerous and nasty stuff.

[Hoddy]

One of these young women, who I heard interviewed this morning, said that she was held down and forcibly injected on her first night in the home. If this is true wouldn't it constitute an assault ? It also appears that they were given much more than a 'normal' dose.

Hoddy

[Gluestick]

Yes: I heard the same interview, Hoddy. The young woman described how her face was "Ground into the floor".

Needs further investigation and corroboration.

 

[ali-cat]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

"As for the second case, the BBC report that allegedly 10 girls out of hundreds that had stayed in one particular children's home (and thousands of others who had been in care in the 1980's), where they were allegedly given large cocktails of tranquillising drugs to control their behaviour, have had children with birth "abnormalities" which are not detailed any further.  Of course the odds of this happening anyway and the medical histories of these children is not detailed as it might spoil a good yarn.

[/quote]

So far, into this investigation, 10 girls have come forward who have had children with birth abnormalities.  It is not yet know how many others there are.  Some of the women involved may not have associated the medication they were given, while in homes, with the problems passed onto their children.

The woman interviewed yesterday has 3 children.   Her first child was born with respiratory problems, her second son is blind & has learning difficulties & her daughter was born with a cleft pallet. Hardly "not detailed" & certainly not “a good yarn”.

According to her medical records from the home she was given 10 times the recommended doses of drugs.

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="ali-cat"]

The woman interviewed yesterday has 3 children.   Her first child was born with respiratory problems, her second son is blind & has learning difficulties & her daughter was born with a cleft pallet. Hardly "not detailed" & certainly not “a good yarn”.

According to her medical records from the home she was given 10 times the recommended doses of drugs.

[/quote]

Yes, but we don't know whether these conditions are related to her experiences in the home or to other factors. I know almost nothing about pharmacodynamics but understand that drugs are eliminated and excreted within a relatively short time period. It may have been that the dosages were such that normal elimination just did not take place and that residues of the drugs remained in fatty tissues and affected foetal development. Or it may be that something else was responsible. Did the woman use recreational drugs or drink heavily during pregnancy? Was she exposed to any adverse environmental influences? The list of variables is just too great.

However, what is clear is that the behaviour of the adult carers in the home was totally and completely unacceptable. The evidence (medical records etc) suggests that she was the victim of a serious assault. The original poster might like to consider that during the "blitz" of compensation claims.

[ali-cat]

I completely agree with you CK, as I also don't know if there is a connection or not. It should be investigated, which is now happening – I also think that the OP's comments & then Ron's use of the words “a good yarn” are condescending & trivialising what may be a horrific story.

[Ron Avery]

Yes, what may be an horrific story but so far based on "an investigation" by the BBC at one home out of hundreds that found 10 women out of thousands who may or may not have been given drugs 25 years ago.  At present its all based on the word of one woman who has children who have problems not related to each other's and then "possibly" linked by one chemist to the drugs that she may or may not have been prescribed.

Didn't the BBC also uncover a children's home on Jersey where hundreds of children had been abused, tortured and even murdered???. 

[hakunamatata]

On reflection my post may have sounded bolshie to say the least. I am not making any excuses lets just say I am probably not the most diplomatic of posters.  I do however feel that the British taxpayer is asked nowadays to compensate for matters which should be dealt with in other ways. 

To answer one of the questions put to me earlier, yes I did give my children the occasional sedative.  My son in particular would not sleep until sometimes 4am in the morning and I was an army wife on my own most of the time for months on end with a screaming baby and not sleep.  Better, in my view, to lightly sedate him in order to get some sleep myself.  Yes I did seek medical help but the only thing on offer was valium and a lot of good I would have been to a baby under the influence of that!

I have also spent some time working with the elderly in the days of geariatric hospitals.  In those days, like the childrens homes, heavy sedation was the only thing on offer.  Medicine has come on leaps and bounds since then thank goodness.

 

 

 

[Chancer]

I know two French women who have admitted to me that they had drugged (their words) with sleeping tablets their ex-husbands because they had been too, shall we say demanding! They told me that it was commonplace

It came to light after one of the ex-husbands told me "la salope essayait de m'empoisonner" [:-))]

Watch your aperos guys!

[Russethouse]

 A doctor advised the family I worked for to use phenergen as a sedative for my three charges (3 boys under 6) when we used to go from W4 in London to Woodbridge, every weekend, pre motorway - it worked, they usually slept most of the way. There was a time when it was quite fashionable to use sedatives in this way.

Hopefully we know better now....

[hakunamatata]

Thats the same medication I used for my son - not every night you understand!  What do they do now for babies who scream most of the night for no reason?  He was about 3 years old when he stopped.

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="hakunamatata"]Thats the same medication I used for my son - not every night you understand!  What do they do now for babies who scream most of the night for no reason?  .[/quote]

 

Put them on the naughty step and take away their Nintendos?[:D]

[Russethouse]

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/health-therapies-treatments/phenergan/102663/

My son was a nightmare in the day but usually slept soundly, I had more problems with my daughter after her grandmother passed away and some well meaning soul told her that  grandmother had 'just gone to sleep' - cue weeks of child terrified to go to sleep and me having to stay in her room with her until she had nodded off.

[hakunamatata]

Come on we didnt have Nintendos in those days we only had rubic cubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ron Avery]

I thought you asked what they do now??.  A gin soaked dummy used to work for my six kids[Www]  Not that they needed much enticement to sleep after a day up the chimneys[:P]

Getting back to the topic, The Mirror lambasted the mother for not going to court with her sons, maybe that is why they were in a foster home in the first place????

[Russethouse]

 Didn't she give them to Social Services because she couldn't cope ?