The scandal of the rich people who have social housing

[NormanH]

[quote user="Gluestick"][quote user="NormanH"]The irrelevant waffle, based on misconception that you deem to be 'Synthesis' (look it up) :-) , shows that you couldn't distinguish Hilary from Trinity.

[/quote]

Just for your elucidation, Norm.[;-)]

What is a Comparison-And-Contrast Synthesis?

The comparison/contrast enables you to examine two subjects (or

sources) against one another by considering their similarities

(comparison) and differences (contrast). First you will have to

carefully read your sources in order to discover significant criteria for analysis.

A criterion is a specific point to which both your authors refer and

about which they may agree or disagree. You will then organize your

analysis by subject/source or by criteria.

Source:

[/quote]

And you do none of this[:)]

You refer to Housing Associtions in the UK which are not at all the same as HLMs in France without any comparison or awareness of the differences.

[NormanH]

[quote user="Patf"]So, Norman, is there the same strong reaction in France to these wealthy people in social housing, as there is in UK to housing benefit scroungers?

[/quote]

This was the point of the original article in 'Figaro' ( a right-wing newspaper)

It is a scandal that is being publicised at the moment, although to some extent it was already known in some quarters.

With the 'crise' lots of areas are under the microscope.

Another example is the extensive property holdings of the French Government here and abroad (In Italy for example)

[pachapapa]

As noted elsewhere having left the UK in 1958, I find the historical ramble through the Thatcher years informative, I have of course had some difficulties following the time-line, but now realise that the compare & contrast synergy will often be primordial.

[Will]

[quote user="NormanH"]With the 'crise' lots of areas are under the microscope.
Another example is the extensive property holdings of the French Government here and abroad (In Italy for example)
[/quote]

Best to keep quiet about that Norm. Certainly the willingness to cheaply sell off government assets, of which property is a prime example, to cronies has been a feature of the less pleasant side of British national and local government - regardless of party.

What I know about politicians in France doesn't give me any confidence that they would be any better, unfortunately.

 

[NormanH]

[quote user="pachapapa"]As noted elsewhere having left the UK in 1958, I find the historical ramble through the Thatcher years informative, I have of course had some difficulties following the time-line, but now realise that the compare & contrast synergy will often be primordial.[/quote]

Ranbling it certainly is, but 'compare & contrast' it certainly ain't [:D]

[Gluestick]

[quote user="NormanH"]

And you do none of this[:)]

You refer to Housing Associtions in the UK which are not at all the same as HLMs in France without any comparison or awareness of the differences.

[/quote]

Of course I didn't bother to consider the differences; I used reference sources like this to wrap up me frites.........

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/LSELondon/pdf/SocialHousingInEurope.pdf

And a number of others.

Course, social housing in France is totally different: they build 'em from straw and finance 'em with chocolate Euros: and the people are different too. Don't need bathrooms 'cos none of the scum in French social housing bother to wash. Well, those not living in caves, that is.

What do you honestly think European Integration and exchange of social philosophies was all about?

Are you unaware of the various EU initiatives which accordingly affect UK, France and all other members states?

http://www.housingeurope.eu/www.housingeurope.eu/uploads/file_/Hans%20Dubois%20-%20Eurofund.pdf

[NormanH]

[quote user="Gluestick"][quote user="NormanH"]

And you do none of this[:)]

You refer to Housing Associtions in the UK which are not at all the same as HLMs in France without any comparison or awareness of the differences.

[/quote]

Of course I didn't bother to consider the differences; I used reference sources like this to wrap up me frites.........

[/quote]

I can believe that as no mention of any of those documents is made in the  doddering anecdotal reminiscences at http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/2/2356180/ShowPost.aspx#2356180

about Housing Associations in the UKthat you try to pass off as 'analysis, comparison, contrast, and synthesis.'

You are entitled to your opinions of course, and you have something to say about the UK, but please don't have the pretension to pass yourself off as an academic..

Why do you post on a Forum about France, in a Section called 'Complete France'?

[cooperlola]

Here we go again.

Would you two (and all the other little boys who seem to like to populate this forum these days) put your toys back in your pram for a moment and reflect on the very important subject being discussed here?  If we were discussing this scandal in India, Australia, Papua New Guinea or wherever, it would still be sad and still need a solution devised by sensible people with experiences of all sorts.  Why does every discussion on every subject seem to disintegrate into a pub brawl?  If I wanted to listen to a bunch of morons hurling abuse at one another I'd go to a football match.[:@]

[Russethouse]

 Norman, As you are so unhappy I have moved the thread to a more appropriate section

[woolybanana]

Prams and rattles?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Russethouse"] Norman, As you are so unhappy I have moved the thread to a more appropriate section
[/quote] Ever the diplomat, RH.  That's why you're a mod' and I could never be one!

 I appologise for losing my rag, guys and gals, but it is such a shame to be discussing important subjects in this negative way.  We may disagree but why do we have to get so personal (as much against the forum rules as thread drift, surely?) 

[NormanH]

[quote user="Russethouse"] Norman, As you are so unhappy I have moved the thread to a more appropriate section

[/quote]

The Original Post was in a perfectly appropriate section. It is the subsequent ones that weren't .

[NormanH]

"reflect on the very important subject being discussed here"

I was.  The subject is the occupation of HLMs in France by people who have very high salaries.

It then got hijacked by someone with nothing to say on that subject.

For further reading I suggest

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/N19424.xhtml

[Russethouse]

 Norman, I know its a long time since you lived in the Uk, but some problems and topics are common to both countries...if you really want to specifically discuss the matter regarding France then as someone else suggests may be a French news forum inhabited by French people would be a better place....my feeling is that its unlikely that many forum members have an indepth knowledge of the problem in France and perhaps some cannot follow the items you link to in French

[Pommier]

Going back a few pages in this discussion, someone mentioned the system in Australia which sounds perfect ie the rent is subsidised for poorer tenants, market rate for the better off, and with an added premium for the much better off.

[Chancer]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Mrs Gluey and I treat  our own tenants from the very perspective that our property is now their home; their environment and their space.

[/quote]

Sory Gluestick but sometimes I just cant resist being naughty [6] http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1297473/ShowPost.aspx

I hope you understand [:D]

P.S. Were you involved with the Guinness trust at all in the 80's ?

[5-element]

[quote user="Russethouse"] if you really want to specifically discuss the matter regarding France then as someone else suggests may be a French news forum inhabited by French people would be a better place....my feeling is that its unlikely that many forum members have an indepth knowledge of the problem in France and perhaps some cannot follow the items you link to in French
[/quote]

I too, am disappointed that specifically French issues get such little airing here. It may be that few people here know about HLMs, who lives there and why and how, but surely, learning about that must be interesting enough? After all it concerns France, the place that many forumites have CHOSEN to live in?

It is the imbalance which bothers me. As soon as there is a thread that concerns France directly, after 2 or 3 posts, it goes back to "how it is back home"...[:'(]

But of course, if you are suggesting that if we want to read about France, then we should go on a "proper" French forum....then perhaps this here forum is shooting itself in the foot....

[Patf]

I agree with you and Norman, 5E.

But I think the crux of the matter is that not many of us have good enough french to really research these subjects. Also most of us seem to live in the country, and tend to cut of from city life, having had enough of that already.

Sorry Norman to have missed your initial link from Le Figaro, which I've now read, but not all the comments.

[Russethouse]

 Not at all - but one has to be a realistic, most people here have English as their first language,and either come here for specific information or leisure.Add to that many of them have limited voting powers in France.

 Just posting a comment and then a link will often be treated as it has been here, perhaps a little explanation of the pro's and cons to begin with would pique the forum members interests and encourage them to investigate further......or stimulate more France centered discussion

The topic of this thread is also probably something that as GS said, forum members have little knowledge of relating to France.

 All that being said, is it really a France only problem ?  I think not, therefore discussion regarding social housing in a general way is probably a) inevitable and b) valid

In addition, it's a forum, people are almost bound to post about their own experiences, if they didn't there just wouldn't be a forum.....

[cooperlola]

It is indeed a shame that people aren't interested in social problems in the country they've moved to.  It's a shame that a number of them couldn't care less about the same subject in the country they were born in (wherever that was.)  It's a shame that more people aren't interested in politics because if they were we might - just might - have better policiticians. It's a pity more people who live here can't speak French. 

On the other hand, short of horse whipping people into submission, there's not much one can do about that, is there?  If we consider these problems and discuss then vigourously, then maybe somebody's conscience will be pricked and they will do something, or at least try, to help.  But telling them off for not sticking to a subject is hardly designed to encourage debate - it's just a turn off.  Sorry, but most of us on here are adults, and we will chose which subjects interest us and which do not.  There's that old one about horses and water....

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Chancer"]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Mrs Gluey and I treat  our own tenants from the very perspective that our property is now their home; their environment and their space.

[/quote]

Sory Gluestick but sometimes I just cant resist being naughty [6] http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1297473/ShowPost.aspx

I hope you understand [:D]

P.S. Were you involved with the Guinness trust at all in the 80's ?

[/quote]

Be as naughty as you like, JRC.

Interestingly, that pair were the only tenants we have had trouble with: I take great care to select our tenants and screen them through various facilities.

The husband was a merchant banker: and the wife a Special Needs Teacher.

Arrogant SOBs! They huffed and puffed and threatened to sue to recover their deposit, but eventually evaporated: we repaid a small percentage.

Also out of interest some of the better pics are now posted on a third party site, as illustrations of the utter contempt some have for other people's assets. And furthermore, it is a significant national site, connected with a specific aspect of private residential letting.

My only marginally recent involvement with the Guinness Trust was due to a joint Local Authority-Guinness redevelopment, as I was chairing an urban regeneration project at that time.

Last night Ian Hislop presented a very interesting prog on BBC Two on Victorian "Do Gooders"

See here:

One of the subjects was Octavia Hill.

See here:

[mint]

At the risk of vexing Norman, I must reply to Gluey.  Yes, Gluey, I watched it all, not I hasten to add, because I am overly interested in Victorians or do-gooding but I love Hislop and always enjoy his little digs and witty asides.

And yes, Octavia Hill was quite a woman.

From what I knew about social housing in the UK, I must admit that we turned down a very nice house in Normandy at a very good price because there was a lot of HLM stuff right opposite it.

Don't know if we said "no" to an absolute bargain or what but, purely because we were so ignorant of HLMs in France, we felt we couldn't risk our retirement in that way. 

[Chancer]

I would happily live in one of the HLM's in the town bordering my village, frankly its a bidonville inhabited by cassoces but there is a certain solidarité there and it would be a quantum leap in the right direction from where I reside at the moment.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

At the risk of vexing Norman, I must reply to Gluey.  Yes, Gluey, I watched it all, not I hasten to add, because I am overly interested in Victorians or do-gooding but I love Hislop and always enjoy his little digs and witty asides.

And yes, Octavia Hill was quite a woman.

From what I knew about social housing in the UK, I must admit that we turned down a very nice house in Normandy at a very good price because there was a lot of HLM stuff right opposite it.

Don't know if we said "no" to an absolute bargain or what but, purely because we were so ignorant of HLMs in France, we felt we couldn't risk our retirement in that way. 

[/quote]

Yes but..... the "riches" and "aisées"....would have been casing the HLMs.[:)]

http://www.lepoint.fr/economie/plus-de-50-000-menages-tres-aises-vivent-en-hlm-29-11-2010-1268228_28.php

[mint]

OTOH, Pacha, I don't think I would have survived the cold in Normandy in the winter!