Too posh to push madam? We will council you!

[woolybanana]

Here is an interesting little health article which sort of ties up with the one about giving animal remains to .... well, animals, again.

To me, it carries an implied threat that if the patient wants a caesar, they will be persuaded otherwise by nurses with coshes and that to carry on will be irresponsible and wasteful and, worst of all, middle class!

The relevant medical research is sort of half presented but is clearly overridden by cost factors.

One important thing really missed out is the long term damage to women of having natural births and any mention of a link between this and post natal depression.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8531681/Middle-class-mothers-should-be-talked-out-of-caesareans.html

[Patf]

Wooly - longterm damage from c-sections can have even worse effects - I know someone who has had 6 - what a mess, poor woman had to have another operation to repair the damage.

We were listening to a discussion about this article on LBC at lunchtime. Evidently a c-section costs £4000 compared to natural birth at £400.

Personally, I would say that the wonderful feeling in the last stage of natural birth, when the baby is being born,  is well worth all the rest.

[woolybanana]

The fightback to normality begins:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/cherrill-hicks/8534340/We-need-to-fight-the-myth-of-too-posh-to-push.html

[idun]

Who would have any operation that they didn't need?

Who would have an operation voluntarily where they would be told not to pick their baby up when it is born so as not to open wounds?

My last words to the anasthesist as he put me out was 'pas de cesarian!' and I didn't have a cesarian.

 

I didn't want one, never ever. Babies know when they are being born, everything sort of works, usually. Cut a woman open and the baby is not ready unless it is a medical emergency cesarian.

I have friends who have had cesarians because of medical emergencies. My friend's daughter had a cesarian that was booked as the girl has a crooked spine and needed specialist medical attention when she gave birth.

 

I'm not against all cesarians, but let nature take it's course if it can.

[Russethouse]

 I agree with idun - my first daughter was breech delivery, no cesarian, (although the team were on standby )now for breech births cesarians are routine.

Just for a start after an operation there is a period when you cannot drive, how practical is that with a young baby ?  Then there is the stress and tiredness of recovery in addition to the exhaustion that caring for a new baby can bring.

Fine, if people need a cesarian, all well and good, but it should be a need, not a want.

[woolybanana]

My problem was not with the having of caesars or not, but with the idea that patients will be counselled until they change their minds. Whatever use counselling might be, it is not to be used an instrument of policy enforcement. This smacks of Big Brother, driven by accountants.

[Russethouse]

Wanting a cesarian is quite fashionable - frankly I wouldn't bother with counselling - the answer 'no, unless there is a medical need' should suffice.

Most women are nervous/terrified about giving birth, its natural, and good pre natal staff are trained to re assure. Organisations such as the Natural Childbirth Trust also help

[Cendrillon]

Wooly

My daughter was advised to have a caeser delivery for second  (breech) baby. She also has some rather serious health problems. She insisted (and some!) with top people at the hospital, succeeded and got her wish. She managed to have a breech baby born by normal delivery and managed with no pain relief. She is very strong minded and a psychologist into the bargain![Www]

[idun]

That is a fair comment Wooly, and I agree with the big brother thing too.

Still, I also think that they should say no. Child birth is still a risky business at the best of times without putting a major operation into the equation. If it is needed, then do them.

 

Now you do have me wondering why there is less post natal depression after a cesarian. I can think of one reason in our very odd lives these days and that is people rally round more after an operation and the new mother and baby get more help and more contact. Now I may be wrong about this, as I am wrong about so much in this life? Could this be a factor? And if that is a factor, should we all be doing more/helping more when people have a new baby in the house when it has been a natural birth?

We do live odd lives these days, I'm sure that our ancestors could never imagine a woman alone with a baby as we are today, it is sort of strange, when I think about it.  I had my kids a 1000 miles from my closest friends and family, so I know what being alone after child birth is like. I know that lots of people like tiny babies and all that, but personally I find that first year highly over rated. The fatigue involved is not something I could imagine prior to the birth. Although there are lucky people out there who have 'sleepers' and lucky lucky them. I think that fraught sums up my first year with both my kids, not a nice way of living really. And I never got post natal depression.