UKIP manifesto,.....

[woolybanana]

well, sort of. This came through my email today and sort of sums up what I have suspected about UKIP for some time - ie that they repesent a disgruntled white middle which feels its voice is not being heard.

(Or is it Norman recruiting for his own party?[6])

What does anyone else think?

"Nigel Farage Has It All Covered"

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God
fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to
earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, but I don't push it on
others. I believe in British products and buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me and not to some governmental
functionary, to share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; it makes you a
smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or
victimized, and does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in
with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, you should do it in
English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God when and where
they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff and Winston Churchill
and I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!


I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to
avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way
they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!


I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time watching or arguing
about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, go back to where
you came from and change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....We like it the way it is and even more so the way
it was...so stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist
country! If you were born or legally migrated here and don't like it...
you are free to move to any Socialist country that will have you. I
believe it is time to really clean house, starting with the House of
Commons, the seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, and why are
they always part of the problem and not the solution?
Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're
breaking the law, regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I
think it's good....


I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to
their cause....Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown anywhere in
the United Kingdom !

If this makes me a BAD Brit, then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD
Brit too, please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer
War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars
1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert
Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends died in
Afghanistan and Iraq . None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq
Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a
school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was
expelled...the students who took it down.

West London high school students were sent home, because they wore
T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is
enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; and every Briton needs
to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters
long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions who died fighting in wars for
this country, and for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to make this a racist message. IT IS NOT !

Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way... bent over backwards not to offend
anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN ! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & DAMN PROUD OF IT!!!!!"
AMEN"

[YCCMB]

John 11:35

[woolybanana]

But folk will vote for him.

[YCCMB]

Probably. But that doesn't make it right. Just watching Channel 4 news about all the far right anti-semitic, anti Roma parties springing up all over Europe. History is going to repeat itself unless people wake up.

[Russethouse]

+1

[idun]

If I take that list and replace 'britons' with France, then I have to say that most french people I know have made such comments and for all the time I was there and still do.

I cannot say that french friends who have made such comments have been rabid right wingers, just hard working tax payers and who are all benevoles too. Not the equivilent of UKIP members, or the FN, at all, in fact most would be horrified if I suggested their views were FN.

And what of history???? It has been mentioned, that we should not forget, but there are many things that we should not forget and the bad was not just against ethnic groups, it was against 'us' too, the little people. Maybe the difference is, that we only have our freedom because in 'our' history, people risked their lives and their families lives to 'fight', but apparently that doesn't count any more. Aren't we supposed to be aware, remember, that we are 'free' because brave people wanted us to be????? Freedoms were not given, they were always fought for!

Life is complicated and not perfect, never will be and that we should never forget either.

[Rabbie]

Idun, Remember that many of the people who voted for Hitler in 1933 were hard working respectable people who felt their country had been badly treated by the treaty of Versailles. They did not think that things would turn out as they did. There always unintended consequences.

[NickP]

I think it's outrageous that people publish this drivel on a forum and claim that it might be from UKIP, This has been doing the rounds for ages and is nothing to do with any political party it's just something put out by Trolls trying to cause controversy. Ignore it.

[woolybanana]

Not outrageous at all, Nick, just an urge. To try and sort the wood from the trees. And it seems that UKIP is more like like a swamp!

[Russethouse]

I'd feel re-assured that its a piece of trolling if I didn't have a sneaky feeling that a lot of people who vote for UKIP believe that this is what they are voting for.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Not outrageous at all, Nick, just an urge. To try and sort the wood from the trees. And it seems that UKIP is more like like a swamp![/quote]

Wooly,

What, specifically, do you object to in the statements and sentiments expressed in your opening post ?

[Pickles]

The original version of this seems to date from around 2000, and seems to have originated in the US - as some of the language hints at.

[YCCMB]

One thing that DOES resonate is:

"I believe if you don't like the way things are here, go back to where

you came from and change your own country!"

Now, if this were to apply to some the the UK's armchair critics on here, living in France yet never short of a lengthy tirade about Britain going to the dogs.....

If you don't like the way things are in the UK, come back and change things instead of pontificating from a distance?

[Quillan]

I think that if you (anyone) believes this 'email' to be genuine and that you agree with the sentiments within or to put it another way do not disagree with its contents and believe them to be true and you live in France then I respectfully suggest you sell up and move back to the UK, join Ukip and become a party activist to help them win the next election. That's a general observation (not and insight [;-)] ) and not aimed at any specific individual.

Personally I think it's a load of old tosh and whilst I am no fan of Ukip I don't think it is right to peddle this sort of rubbish round the web.

[NormanH]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]One thing that DOES resonate is:

"I believe if you don't like the way things are here, go back to where

you came from and change your own country!"

Now, if this were to apply to some the the UK's armchair critics on here, living in France yet never short of a lengthy tirade about Britain going to the dogs.....

If you don't like the way things are in the UK, come back and change things instead of pontificating from a distance?

[/quote]

Surely that 'here' applies to where one is living, i.e. in  my case France?

If one doesn't like the way things are going in the UK isn't that a reason not to go back?

Not that I am ravi ravi with the state of France either...

[YCCMB]

Au contraire, Norman. You cannot have your gateau and eat it. If you don't like the way your country is going, then, IMVHO, the coward's way out is to up sticks and leave. To (potentially mis-)quote  Gandhi: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world".

[PaulT]

From all the condemnation of the statements made in WBs original post does that mean that:

Wrestling is not fake [:D]

[NormanH]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]Au contraire, Norman. You cannot have your gateau and eat it. If you don't like the way your country is going, then, IMVHO, the coward's way out is to up sticks and leave. To (potentially mis-)quote  Gandhi: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world".

[/quote]

So you agree that immigrants should go back where they came from?

That would leave the USA rather empty..

[Quillan]

[quote user="PaulT"]

From all the condemnation of the statements made in WBs original post does that mean that:

Wrestling is not fake [:D]

[/quote]

Thats why I thought the email was a hoax, of course wrestling is real. [;-)]

[YCCMB]

[quote user="NormanH"][quote user="You can call me Betty"]Au contraire, Norman. You cannot have your gateau and eat it. If you don't like the way your country is going, then, IMVHO, the coward's way out is to up sticks and leave. To (potentially mis-)quote  Gandhi: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world".

[/quote]

So you agree that immigrants should go back where they came from?

That would leave the USA rather empty..

[/quote]

Once again, au contraire, Norman.

1. I would like you to point out precisely where I said that immigrants should go back to where they came from.

2. I think you may find, and Mr CdL is a shining example of same, that the USA has, to a large extent, been successful in attracting people who embrace its culture (using that word in its broadest sense, for comedic effect) and ethos. Have a look at the number of people in the USA who fly their flag outside their home, who stand up for their country whatever idiocy it may perpetrate, and you will see a bunch of immigrants or descendants of immigrants who have assimilated and become American.

What you have chosen to misinterpret is my view that, if you want to single out those who are critical of the UK, then looking among the ranks of the new arrivals is to misdirect your anger. The most vociferous critics of the UK by far are its own natives - many of whom are also the descendants of immigrants - and within that group the ones who often shout the loudest are those who simply couldn't be bothered to contribute to change, choosing instead to leave the country and then moan about it in extenso from another country where they have become the very immigrants they left to avoid.

[NormanH]

You say that people should not emigrate " the coward's way out is to up sticks and leave", but should stay where they are born changing the country  from within " "You must be the change you wish to see in the world".

I certainly could not be accused of leaving the UK to avoid immigrants, since I left a West Country village of inbreds and came to a highly multi-ethnic town in France

Perhaps I should have stayed in Somerset and widened the gene pool among the local ladies?

The corollary to no emigration is no immigration, and logically the

'coward' should go back and start to work of change according to that

view.

I often hear people say  (at the moment about Roma, but I

have heard it of other groups) "Why don't they change their own country

instead of coming here'

That is what I am reacting to..

[woolybanana]

"Perhaps I should have stayed in Somerset and widened the gene pool among the local ladies?"

Uhhum, Norman, you are being very discreet there, aren't you? Is it because there are ladies present?

My dear chap, have no fear, you may confess your sin to us with impunity. Wasn't it because of Baaabara, the blackface prize ewe that you left? Not I hasten to say because your indulging yourself with her was condemned as it is normal in that part of the world, but because the locals were jealous?

[YCCMB]

[quote user="NormanH"]You say that people should not emigrate " the coward's way out is to up sticks and leave", but should stay where they are born changing the country  from within " "You must be the change you wish to see in the world".

I certainly could not be accused of leaving the UK to avoid immigrants, since I left a West Country village of inbreds and came to a highly multi-ethnic town in France

Perhaps I should have stayed in Somerset and widened the gene pool among the local ladies?

The corollary to no emigration is no immigration, and logically the

'coward' should go back and start to work of change according to that

view.

I often hear people say  (at the moment about Roma, but I

have heard it of other groups) "Why don't they change their own country

instead of coming here'

That is what I am reacting to..

[/quote]

You are reacting to your own, very loose, interpretation of what I am saying, Norman, and I cannot help but think you're doing it by choice, or wilful misunderstanding of my point. Which is, and I apologise if I am repeating myself, to do with the aspect of criticism, rather than the aspect of  migration (im - or em-).

The original text which, if you recall, I said resonated with me was quite specific. It referred to people who criticise the UK and exhorted them to return to their own country. I pointed out that many of the people who DO criticise the UK are UK nationals who have left, and that maybe if they feel so strongly that there are things to criticise back there, they should have attempted to stay and help make the change, rather than sound off about the UK's problems from abroad.

Of course,many of those who do live abroad still have a vote in the UK General Elections (at the risk of rubbing salt into your already suppurating wound). It is even more disturbing that they may be instrumental in helping to elect a brace or more of UKIP MP's, who in turn may try to set about enacting the sort of change that they feel appropriate in the UK. Then it's going to be the poor sods who do live here who will be saddled with the consequences.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="NormanH"]You say that people should not emigrate " the coward's way out is to up sticks and leave", but should stay where they are born changing the country  from within " "You must be the change you wish to see in the world".

I certainly could not be accused of leaving the UK to avoid immigrants, since I left a West Country village of inbreds and came to a highly multi-ethnic town in France

Perhaps I should have stayed in Somerset and widened the gene pool among the local ladies?

The corollary to no emigration is no immigration, and logically the

'coward' should go back and start to work of change according to that

view.

I often hear people say  (at the moment about Roma, but I

have heard it of other groups) "Why don't they change their own country

instead of coming here'

That is what I am reacting to..

[/quote]

You are reacting to your own, very loose, interpretation of what I am saying, Norman, and I cannot help but think you're doing it by choice, or wilful misunderstanding of my point. Which is, and I apologise if I am repeating myself, to do with the aspect of criticism, rather than the aspect of  migration (im - or em-).

The original text which, if you recall, I said resonated with me was quite specific. It referred to people who criticise the UK and exhorted them to return to their own country. I pointed out that many of the people who DO criticise the UK are UK nationals who have left, and that maybe if they feel so strongly that there are things to criticise back there, they should have attempted to stay and help make the change, rather than sound off about the UK's problems from abroad.

Of course,many of those who do live abroad still have a vote in the UK General Elections (at the risk of rubbing salt into your already suppurating wound). It is even more disturbing that they may be instrumental in helping to elect a brace or more of UKIP MP's, who in turn may try to set about enacting the sort of change that they feel appropriate in the UK. Then it's going to be the poor sods who do live here who will be saddled with the consequences.

[/quote]

This of course highlights the issue of whether people who live abroad should have a vote where they don't have to live with the consequences. The ex-patriot vote was brought in by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s presumably because she thought they would vote conservative. Those of us who were already abroad when the law was changed did not get a vote.

[Quillan]

Interesting point Rabbie and you can turn it round i.e. perhaps the EU could create legislation that says something along the lines of "if you pay tax in an EU country then you have the right to vote how your taxes are spent". In other words those of us that pay tax in France and are resident here should have the right to vote in national elections. The same would of course would apply to all EU countries.