Halal - how widespread ?

[5-element]

[quote user="chessie"]



 MOST people in the UK are Christians; 

this is NOTHING TO DO WITH MUSLIMS - NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING



Chessie




[/quote]

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[Gluestick]

Animal Slaughter

[Gardener]

I couldn't get your link to open but from that site

"In 2003, the Meat Hygiene Service conducted a survey which showed that around 90% of British Halal meat came from animals which were stunned before slaughter. It is believed that the large majority still is"

So only 10 % of HALAL meat in 2003

WASN'T stunned.

Philip Lymbery, Chief Executive for Compassion in World Farming, said: “We completely respect every individual’s religious choice. However, it is illegal for slaughterhouses to slaughter animals without first stunning them unless they are satisfied that the meat is intended SOLELY [my emphasis] for the Muslim or Jewish communities. In our view it is also against the law for a company to sell or serve meat from unstunned animals to the wider general public.”

So it can be deduced from this that the Halal

meat on sale to the wider public is part of the

90%, stunned as above.

The law requires animals to be stunned (rendered unconscious) before slaughter. However, the law gives an exemption to the normal rule that all animals be pre-stunned, allowing for animals to be slaughtered without pre-stunning for Halal meat for Muslim communities and Kosher meat for Jewish communities.

This law is designed to ensure that meat from animals that have not been pre-stunned does not reach the general market for consumption by non-Muslim and non-Jewish communities

In conclusion, there is halal meat 10%, of which isn't stunned but is for muslim consumption only and halal meat 90% of which has been stunned for sale to the wider public.

So there is every chance that the halal meat that has been getting into the 'christian' food chain has been stunned , so what is all the fuss about?

Thanks for the link

[Hoddy]

Whatever one's views on the way animals are slaughtered, it cannot be right that we are not told. I agree with Chessie in that if buying meat in the UK we ought to be able to assume that it has been killed humanely. What worries me is that in the end we shall be having whichever kind of meat the supermarkets finds it more profitable to feed us.

We are already losing our choice in what kind of milk we buy. When I want to buy milk I have to buy it from a supermarket where it is getting cheaper all the time. People canvassing for my vote before the last election were quite surprised when I said I wanted to pay more for food. Around here, in what used to be a major dairying area with two Nestles factories and several cheese factories, many fields stand empty and dairy farmers are going out of business because they are unable to make a living. While this is happening there are plans afoot for a dairy unit of over 8,000 cows in Lincolnshire. The business behind this venture (I won't call them farmers) have applied for government grants towards funding the building. In this way we will be paying for our milk via our taxes. This is not what I want.

I fear that we may lose our chance to choose over meat in much the same way. We, the public should be informed. I am shocked to learn that all New Zealand lamb is halal slaughtered. If they have the right to make this decision I should be allowed to make an informed choice.

[Gardener]

But if you read the website Glue stick posted and the info I extrapolated then you are worrying needlessly.

I repeat 90% of halal meat in the UK according to that website is pre stunned.

The other 10 % isn't but can only be sold in Muslim/ Jewish communities.

New Zealand Halal meat is pre stunned.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3604675.stm

and this is going back to 2004

But I guess generally people will believe what they want to believe.

[chessie]

Couldn't respond earlier due to hospital visits - and 'mouse' committing 'hari kari'...

I understood that Halal meat is from an animal which has not been stunned before having its throat cut.   Some of you seem to imply that the method used ie. stunning prior to throat slit - is used ALL the time...but that there is the hocus pocus of prayers needing to be said ...    Such assumptions are WRONG - the method of slaughter ie non-stunning is HALAL.   You cannot have Halal meat from an animal that has been pre-stunned.

Gardener's interpretation of the 2003 (!!) - Meat Hygiene Service are extremely confused - and wrongly summarised ie - ' halal meat 10% which isn't stunned for muslim consumption and halal meat 90% of which has been stunned'  - doesn't make sense;  90% stunned is NOT Halal meat.     But  the further quotes from the report -  'illegal for slaughterhouses to slaughter.......unless....meat is intended solely for Muslim or Jewish..    In our view it is also against the law for a company to sell.....to the wider general public' make very clear what SHOULD happen - but which has obviously changed.    But the first part ' against the law' is what most people in the UK, a Christian country with Christian traditions, and laws based on Christianity would presume - and had presumed - to be the case regarding Halal meat.

The report also goes on '...designed to ensure that meat from animals that have not been pre-stunned (ie HALAL meat) - does NOT REACH THE GENERAL MARKET....

This would imply that meat which is being served up in Government institutions, and local authority schools and hospitals - is BEING SOLD AND CONSUMED ILLEGALLY.

The figures that Gardener quoted are from 2004 - there have been a lot of changes in the last 6 years.

The dismissive comment that I 'should be a vegetarian' is childish.   I would be a hypocrite to take such a strong stance against Halal/all slaughter if I weren't a vegetarian.   I have been one since my early teens.

I was one of those who took an active part in trying to promote more humane treatment for animals;  I did do the lobbying, the petitioning, the campaigning, the fund raising.    The reason I am so distressed about what is happening is that after years of making what seemed to be progress - it would seem that this has now been set-back to the Dark Ages of 600 Ano Domini - because of sly, under-hand, secretive pandering to a minority 'cult'ure, and all because what might have been relevant health concerns back in 600 AD have not changed and are considered to STILL be relevant in the 21st century.   That's real progress isn't it ?

As for the comments about Halal meat being more expensive.    Somehow I don't think that comment stands up any longer if Halal meat is being provided and used in Government institutions, prisons, hospitals, schools etc.

Salty Sam - your comment 'if the animal is stunned before being slaughtered, what difference does it make if it's done Halal' shows a degree of misunderstanding of what this topic is all about.   Halal IS meat from an animal which has NOT BEEN STUNNED.

Gardener also said 'meat companies...maximise profits...if there is enough furore ....they will stop - not for religious reasons but financial ones'.     But that is MY point.     UNLESS the public know what they are being sold they will never be able to make informed decisions.    So maybe the meat companies would prefer that the British public WERE NOT TOLD - because the companies know that there would be - to quote your words 'a furore'....

Hoddy went on to mention about losing our choice in what kind of milk can be bought and dairy farmers going out of business.   Support your comments entirely;  you know why the British farmer is having a hard time ?   Supermarkets with their buying power is one; and the other is that animal welfare standards in the UK are higher than on the Continent and the British farmer gets nothing like the subsidies from the CAP that the Continental farmers do.   And I feel that DEFRA - and the last Government of Traitors - let down the British farmer time and time again.

And your final comments about New Zealand lamb - Halal slaughtered -  should be writ large -

I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO MAKE AN INFORMED CHOICE.

And for those of you who still think it's a story in tomorrow's chip papers - think on ?

What are your thoughts on genetically modified food ?   

Will you still take the same 'don't want to know', 'all Daily Mail rubbish' stance - while eating your 'techno' food which you have not been informed is techno food ?     Presumably you carried on eating all the food that was covered in DDT and pesticides and didn't mind - after you'd been told what you'd been eating;  or did you make an informed decision and chose not to do so ?

We've had freedom of choice removed from us;   we have not been told we've had freedom of choice removed from us;   it has been done to pander to a small ethnic minority - and for whom our FREEDOM OF CHOICE HAS BEEN REMOVED.   To appease a small ethnic minority 'cult'ure changes are being made to our food - WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE.

Do any of you honestly, really and truthfully - think that that is right ?  

Chessie

[Salty Sam]

With all due respect Chesie, a bit of research would show that stunning IS permitted in Halal slaughter.

http://www.pathofislam.net/2010/united-ummah/meat-from-stunned-animals-is-halal/

[Patf]

The issue of stunned/ not stunned could be linked to different levels of orthodoxy which exist in Islam and Judaism. ie some muslims/jews might be more flexible in their interpretation of the laws.

But there's more to it than that . I can't speak for halal, but with kashrus of meat there's also a very thorough examination of the carcasse before it's passed as acceptable. Various minor flaws, wounds, diseases abnormalities etc render it non-kosher. But the non-jewish market would accept it. This applies to poultry too.

Or the slaughterer could find a fault in the knife he was using .

Also as Q. wrote earlier, only certain parts of the animal are eaten. It's mainly the back legs which are ruled out because of a law that various tendons have to be removed which is a delicate job that not many butchers can do. So these parts of the animal are sold to the non-jewish market.