Halal - how widespread ?

[chessie]

On moral, animal welfare and humane treatment of animals I find the slaughter of animals by the Halal method to be appalling.

I was under the impression that Halal meat was only obtainable in specialist shops.

I've been reading in the UK papers, though, that the large supermarkets, and catering organisations - are now using Halal meat - without telling their customers.

So those in the UK who have fought for compassion in farming, and animal rights, and the RSPCA and DEFRA - are being totally ignored - and Halal meat is now being provided more and more even in supermarkets.

But no-one has told the shoppers what they are buying !!!

Does anyone know whether this is now happening here ?    I HATE the idea of the medieval torture and slaughter of animals in the name of a religion.....

I'm a vegetarian - but my husband isn't and he likes his meat.     But I certainly do NOT want to buy meat from an animal which has been Halaled thank you very much.....

Anyone got any definite knowledge about the situation here in France ?  

Chessie

[Pommier]

This year I've noticed lots of Halal meat (labelled as such) in supermarkets. I hadn't previously seen any of it.

[YCCMB]

Certainly in all our local supermarkets - in an area with a significant Muslim population - Halal meat, and products made from it, is labelled as such and, in general, sold separately from other meat. For example, ready-made curries etc., are labelled if they are halal, and things like frozen samosas. But they are also sold in a separate Asian section, alomgside ghees, spices, rice etc.

Our local Tesco has a specialist halal butcher and Indian sweet shop downstairs, both of which are concessions rather than being anything to do with Tesco itself.

[Clair]

There is a well defined section of the meat cabinets for halal meat in the Géant in Aurillac. Same for the frozen meat and other chilled cabinets.

The packaging is very clear and easy to recognise (example).

From reading news articles, I get the impression that you're more likely to come across "undefined" halal meat in fast-food chains (example).

[Iceni]

[quote user="chessie"]

I've been reading in the UK papers, though, that the large supermarkets, and catering organisations - are now using Halal meat - without telling their customers.

........But no-one has told the shoppers what they are buying !!!

[/quote]

That is pointless tosh. The preparation of Halal and Kosher meat (probably interchangeable for those who are obliged to consume it) is likely to be more expensive than "normal" dead meat. So why offer it for sale in a manner in which believers cannot identify and therefore buy it ?

But then if the papers say so it must be true.

John

[Quillan]

It's of course a Mail on Sunday article so it must be true although The Guardian (link HERE) points out that a RSPCA Fact Sheet points out that over 90% of animals killed by the Halal method in the UK are stunned first just as they are in normal food production. It's very typical of the DM to 'stir things up' with yet again more biased, and sometimes untrue, reporting. I would be more worried about eating pork in the UK as a large percentage are stunned then gassed using C02 which of course gets in the meat, not a nice way to die by affixation.

Many years ago one of my 'clients' was Bernard Mathews and I had to visit their factory. I was sick and ill for many days and unable to sleep for a few weeks afterwards, I refused to set foot in the place ever again. Although what they do with 'birds' is different to other companies I am sure the kill and prep work is the same.

This type of reporting should really not be allowed. The next claim will be is that the Muslims are secretly turning the UK public in to Muslims without them knowing which of course is utter tosh.

[woolybanana]

Isn't that the Mormons?

[Patf]

A new EU regulation came into force this year which says that meat from non-stunned animals should be labelled as such. This hasn't been agreed yet by the UK parliament but is to be debated soon.

When animals are slaughtered by the kosher/halal methods some parts don't meet the standards set and are sold off to gentile stores. This is the kind you might find in supermarkets.

Evidently 8% of "stunned" animals in normal abbatoirs are mis-stunned and suffer an agonising death.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Patf"]
Evidently 8% of "stunned" animals in normal abbatoirs are mis-stunned and suffer an agonising death.
[/quote]

When I was looking up about Halal meat this morning I read something that said the figure was up in the 30+%.

The 'back end' area of animals is not eaten by Muslims etc like hind quarters/back legs and certainly not Ox Tail. There are logical reasons behind (sorry for the pun) this that goes back to when time began and its the same with pigs. It's all to do with having (very) fresh meat which they believed was therefore disease free. Likewise nothing from the 'back end' as thats where the impurities came out. Pigs often used to roam around the exterior of the city walls eating all the garbage and human waste dumped there and as such were open to disease. This should not happen in modern western countries but where religious 'laws' or practices were originally put in place to stop people becoming ill or dieing they have stayed and have become religious rather than practical in their use.

[Gardener]

Does stunning really give the animal a more 'humane' death or just make it easier for the slaughterman to do his job without having to contend with a moving and alarmed hefty animal?

There is nothing really humane in eating the flesh of another creature and I say that as a meat eater. Is the debate about how an animal is killed for human consumption, hypocritical?

As regards elements of the British press I am sure the outrage at halal meat is as much or more about the fact is practised by Muslims rather than any interest in animal welfare.

[Dog]

Halaal meat produced in UK may be more expensive than stunned and slaughtered flesh.

But the stink  at the moment comes from not telling the consumer the flesh they are eating is bled to death and is as cheap as chips as it is imported from countries as far away Turkey where standards are lower and labour and premises are cheaper.

The meat and cheap food industry is incredibly corrupt and they will sell anything to make a profit.

Beats me why people ignore the plight of the billions of fish that are neither stunned or bled to death but are left to die a long, slow and painful death by drowning.

How would you chose to die to satiate an unnecessary appetite, would you prefer to be inadequately electrified, have your throat slit or drown?

We are animals and should treat others the way we would like to be treated.

 

[chessie]

Dog - I think you've summed it up perfectly.

My problem is that the customers are NOT being told that it is Halal meat - that there is NO choice being given.  In exactly the same way that the chemical companies attempted to foist GM products on the public - without the public being informed.

Fine - if people wish to eat Halal - it should be made clear to the customer that that is what is being offered.

It is the nasty, under-hand way this is being done in the UK;  where most people - on the grounds of humane treatment for animals - would prefer 'normally' slaughtered meat and think that what they are buying/eating has been slaughtered in accord with normal UK humane animal welfare practice (if the two can be said to go together).  This is what is causing the 'fuss'....

I was very concerned that the same situation would/could develop here.    It would seem that France is more honest with its customers, thank goodness.    But what are McD's like here in France?   In the UK they did attempt to go over to Halal in some areas but had to abandon it once people became aware of what was happening and boycotted those McDs.

And no - never been in McD's - and never would - just curious.

And Dog's comments about fish are quite valid as well;  I do feel a bit hypocrital when eating fish....

Thanks everyone for information - very interesting.

Chessie

[Dog]

Zebo is sold as beef , cloned beef is being sold along with meat with abnormally high levels of antibiotics.

Meat is expensive so any way to make a bigger profit is used.

Forcing so called higher standards on the slaughterhouse industry has resulted in fewer larger slaughterhouses where the chance of mass infection is larger especially when some work 24/7.

In USA over 90% of  meat beef comes from just three large industrial slaughterhouses and when things go wrong they go very very wrong as has been repeatedly shown.

 

[Panda]

[quote user="chessie"]

It is the nasty, under-hand way this is being done in the UK;  where most people - on the grounds of humane treatment for animals - would prefer 'normally' slaughtered meat and think that what they are buying/eating has been slaughtered in accord with normal UK humane animal welfare practice (if the two can be said to go together).  This is what is causing the 'fuss'....

I was very concerned that the same situation would/could develop here.    It would seem that France is more honest with its customers, thank goodness.    But what are McD's like here in France?   In the UK they did attempt to go over to Halal in some areas but had to abandon it once people became aware of what was happening and boycotted those McDs.


[/quote]

Meat is labelled with the origin in the same way as it is in France, not sure why you think France is any more honest on that front.  Example, the chicken Im about to cook is clearly labelled as free range (I would trust that label more in the UK than in France simply due to the way the french view animal welfare) and the name of the farm and stated as British.

You can buy halal meat in some supermarkets but is is clearly labelled as such and was available in France, again in a separate section.

This does just seem to be the daily mail trying to stir up some racial issues, same old sh*t served up everytime some gullable idiot reads and quotes them.  I just wish expats would find a better source of UK news or better still read some french news!!

 

 

[Quillan]

A lot of people probably wouldn't eat the fish in France either if they had read some of the stuff in the French press, toxins and all that.

[chessie]

Sorry Panda - but you are completely and totally missing the point.

'Origin' is one thing.

Halal - method of slaughter is another matter entirely.    The fact that such methods were NOT being mentioned, publicised, advised - is the point under discussion.

I do buy 'free range' everything when I can.    All I wanted to know was whether Halal meat was properly labelled as such in France;  it appears that in the UK it is not.

Also that members of the public are NOT being informed about what they are buying.

As for your 'usual' comments about the Daily Mail - my oh my - aren't you letting your prejudice show.   So it's all 'lies' in the Daily Mail, but supposedly the Guardian prints the truth !!!  Or none of them ? !!!

For your info I read the FT, the Times, The Guardian, the Telegraph, the Independent, The Guardian, France 24, German Times, International Herald Tribune, (and Le Tocqueville before it was taken off-line)  - as well as the Daily Mail..........pretty varied choice of information there wouldn't you say ?

Tut, tut, tut.......

Chessie

[Patf]

Chessie - you, and a few others on here, are careful about what you put in your mouth to eat.

 But the majority of supermarket customers just look for a bargain, don't care about the origin.

[Edward Trunk]

chessie, it isn't all lies in the Daily Mail. The date at the top is usually true. (but check with the calendar...)

[Gardener]

I think KFC is generally halal in France.

[Braco]

Just another nasty little story - Halal and Kosher are premium products produced in small numbers by specialist butchers. The chances of it being palmed off as cheaper cuts are next to zero.

As a meat eater I realise that animals suffer and die. The method of slaughter makes only a marginal difference.

Of more interest is how we have descended to the level where people are happy to purchase any processed rubbish as long as it is well packaged and advertised.

[tegwini]

[quote user="chessie"]

Dog - I think you've summed it up perfectly.

My problem is that the customers are NOT being told that it is Halal meat - that there is NO choice being given.  In exactly the same way that the chemical companies attempted to foist GM products on the public - without the public being informed.

Fine - if people wish to eat Halal - it should be made clear to the customer that that is what is being offered.

It is the nasty, under-hand way this is being done in the UK;  where most people - on the grounds of humane treatment for animals - would prefer 'normally' slaughtered meat and think that what they are buying/eating has been slaughtered in accord with normal UK humane animal welfare practice (if the two can be said to go together).  This is what is causing the 'fuss'....

I was very concerned that the same situation would/could develop here.    It would seem that France is more honest with its customers, thank goodness.    But what are McD's like here in France?   In the UK they did attempt to go over to Halal in some areas but had to abandon it once people became aware of what was happening and boycotted those McDs.

And no - never been in McD's - and never would - just curious.

And Dog's comments about fish are quite valid as well;  I do feel a bit hypocrital when eating fish....

Thanks everyone for information - very interesting.

Chessie[/quote]

Thanks Chessie

Like you I am annoyed the way the British people are being hoodwinked and betrayed.  I can't imagine that in a Muslim country you would find non-Halal meat being sold to Muslims- or Muslims accepting it!  No doubt violence from them would be the result.

As an bit of an insomniac lately I watched a BBC news programme this morning, (NB : NOT the DM ) on Christians in Indonesia being persecuted.  They cannot meet to worship in a church building they own, so use a field which they also cannot use as they are in a minority and get threatened and attacked  and murdered in that country.

And that's the problem - we Brits are so tolerant - clearly Islam has no tolerance at all for other faiths. 

Tegwini

[Chancer]

[quote user="Panda"]

[quote user="chessie"]


[/quote]

This does just seem to be the daily mail trying to stir up some racial issues, same old sh*t served up everytime some gullable idiot reads and quotes them.  I just wish expats would find a better source of UK news or better still read some french news!![/quote]

To wean people off the Daily mail how about just reading the headlines?

Try this -  http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/

You can plug away for hours and all the headlines it generates are believable if they havnt already been used by the Daily Mail

 

[Hoddy]

To dismiss this as just another Daily Mail scare story is an easy way out. I've done a quick search on the net and most British national dailies have carried some aspect of the story. I believe that I have a right to know how the meat I eat is slaughtered. That will allow me to make my own decision as to whether or not to eat it.

One of the things that I prefer in France is that my local butcher always has the details of the animal, the farmer and the abattoir posted in a prominent place on his van.

People can't make a proper decision without the facts.

Hoddy

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Iceni"]

[quote user="chessie"]

I've been reading in the UK papers, though, that the large supermarkets, and catering organisations - are now using Halal meat - without telling their customers.

........But no-one has told the shoppers what they are buying !!!

[/quote]

That is pointless tosh. The preparation of Halal and Kosher meat (probably interchangeable for those who are obliged to consume it) is likely to be more expensive than "normal" dead meat. So why offer it for sale in a manner in which believers cannot identify and therefore buy it ?

But then if the papers say so it must be true.

John

[/quote]

See no reason for it to be more expensive in fact there will be a more efficient evacuation of blood as the animal is STILL ALIVE as the heart efficiently pumps the still at body temperature blood out. The result is more tender meat and a significantly reduced hanging period.

There are some good video clips of mechanised throat cutting installations on DailyMotion for you to peruse.

[Dog]

Yes it's a lot cheaper to produce Halal all you need is a man with a knife and little compassion...