idun Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote user="cooperlola"]It's been said already on this thread, I know, but whatever the outcome of the DSK case, if its legacy is to empower women to come out against abuses of this sort then some real and positive good will have come out of this sorry affair.[/quote]Deb, on that I wholeheartedly agree. As I tried to outline in earlier posts, there is far too much abuse of women by men - many of whom thinking they have a right to do it.But I will reserve my judgement on whether or not DSK is guilty until we hear the official version(s) of what it is alleged went on. But there is no guarantee they will be honest versions. In fact, it is most unlikely as many members of the legal professions around the world will often resort to untruths to ensure they win their cases come-what-may.I would like to believe 'but at the length truth will out' - however I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Legal rhetoric and truth in the context of defending a client are incompatable.[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Wow, at last we agree on something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Incompatible. [8-|] [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote user="Christine Animal"]Incompatible. [8-|] [:P] [/quote]Well spotted! [:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Christine Animal"]Incompatible. [8-|] [:P] [/quote]Well spotted! [:-))][/quote]"Well spotted" - yes, whatever!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Droit de Cuissage.Useful french political "argot" to fit the moment![6]" trousser une soubrette"http://www.lejdd.fr/Election-presidentielle-2012/Actualite/Eva-Joly-Le-temps-ou-l-on-pouvait-baiser-les-soubrettes-en-toute-impunite-est-revolu-interview-319857/?from=cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote user="pachapapa"]Droit de Cuissage.Useful french political "argot" to fit the moment![6]" trousser une soubrette"http://www.lejdd.fr/Election-presidentielle-2012/Actualite/Eva-Joly-Le-temps-ou-l-on-pouvait-baiser-les-soubrettes-en-toute-impunite-est-revolu-interview-319857/?from=cover[/quote]Started to read this article and then lost patience. French justice is 'better'? Has she not seen those juge d'instruction etc who are snowed under with dossiers often going back years and say they haven't the time to deal with them properly. And those 'years' mean that people are waiting for justice.If the article went onto be more 'raisonable' later then I missed it, and I apologise, I was obvioulsy too impatitent with what I considered ridiculous statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Our justice has its faults, but when I hear about American justice, well, I 'm happy I'm French ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Well we will have to disagree about that then. I never ever trusted the gendarmes. And they are the first line people in the justice system. Friends were fired at by the gendarmes and they asked for their bullets back! Couldn't make it up, things like that.I saw the Affair Gregoire go on and on and on and on and perhaps still is. So was and still unimpressed with it all, and actually it worried me, just in case something ever happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote user="Frenchie"]... when I hear about American justice... [/quote]Be specific, Frenchie. What do you hear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Well, I should have said " whan I see and hear" ..We are on the DSK thread, so I mean, for instance, showing somebody on TV , handcuffed, after 30 hours of being questioned , pointing this person as a perv, etc etc, when nothing has been proved is , IMO, against human rights.Innocent until proven guilty.In France we have a law which forbids to show people in such situations. And I think it is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 But a person can be held for up to two weeks in France without a lawyer? Or with a reluctant lawyer who stands and watches. Suspects can be abused by the police too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I'm afraid this is another debate.I wanted to stay on the DSK track, if I may say so . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 DSK is treated as any other person who is suspected of committing a crime in the US. Why should he be treated differently? I am sure I have seen people menotté to an agent de police or whatever, or is that because they are not of the ruling class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 DSK had the right to a lawyer from the first moment and did not need to say a word.Remember he was seen as a potential flight case, to a country which has no extradition treaty with France, like a certain convicted, paedophile film maker.He could also have fled to the Embassy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote user="woolybanana"]DSK is treated as any other person who is suspected of committing a crime in the US. Why should he be treated differently? [/quote]Noone should be shown on television in those conditions, whether it's DSK or anyone else, as long as it is not known if they are guilty. If they have been caught in the act, that's different.Wooly, just because someone said you had attacked her and it was not true, would you like to go through all that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote user="woolybanana"] DSK is treated as any other person who is suspected of committing a crime in the US. Why should he be treated differently? [/quote]I never said he should have been treated differently !That's the treatment of any person " innocent until proven guilty" that I disagree with . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Won't the majority of french people have seen people menotte on american films or tv programs. My belief was that every last person who is arrested in the US is handcuffed. Can anyone tell me any different. So I really do not understand why this was a surprise to anyone and it shouldn't have been to DSK either when they came for him. His surprise was surely that they came for him in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote user="Frenchie"]I'm afraid this is another debate.I wanted to stay on the DSK track...[/quote]if it's not up for discussion on this thread, then why make a comment about it in the first place?You compared both justice systems.You imply one was better than the other but refuse to engage in a debate.I would say both have their faults but how they are currently compared in the media in France is bound to make the French system a better one.I agree with idun regarding the length of time it takes for a suspect to be declared innocent or guilty, particularly if the suspect is found innocent.Relying on a single person - the juge d'instruction - to decide in which direction the police should look is inherently subject to bias, no matter how impartial he/she is supposed to be.But no matter, we're not discussing it now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 What is wrong with someone who has been charged being handcuffed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote user="woolybanana"]What is wrong with someone who has been charged being handcuffed?[/quote]In France, that appears to make them guilty as charged.It's all about perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote user="Clair"][quote user="Frenchie"]I'm afraid this is another debate.I wanted to stay on the DSK track...[/quote]if it's not up for discussion on this thread, then why make a comment about it in the first place? I made a comment about American justice in LINK WITH DSK's arrest, so I thought that was the right place to do it. But I didn't want to be off track and start an endless debate that would have had no link witb the topic of this thread.You compared both justice systems. You imply one was better than the other but refuse to engage in a debate. No, sorry, I'm ready to debate about the treatment of people who are innocent until proven guilty in both countries.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 http://vuparmwa.over-blog.com/article-en-france-montrer-une-personne-menottee-est-theoriquement-un-delit-73945806.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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