madds Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Delicate subject, but here we go. I recently bought a car from an English person and since found out that entries in the service record and indications under the bonnet concerning maintenance work done are not true. I have contacted the previous owners who have confirmed my suspicions.It's a UK reg car and I am changing immatriculation and arranging servicing, CT, etc. to be done as I don't want my family to be put in a dangerous breakdown situation. Question...What would you do?Thank you for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Certainly give the area you live in. Folks may then PM you for the individuals name to avoid the predicament you are in. Hopefully somebody (SD) will be along with info that will help you bring the individual to task. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madds Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 Thanks for your reply.I'm in Bretagne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 This constitutes what is known as vice caché and as such allows you redress against the seller. I suggest you contact him on that basis. The threat may make him play ball. If not then the redress is the legal one and to be honest, it is likely to give you a warm feeling winning the case, but could easily leave you out of pocket. The concept of damages and costs are something strange to the French courts Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I find it very difficult to believe that vice caché can apply to a non French registered vehicle ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madds Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 As a sideline, how do I get the 'pm' icon on my posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It's there for everyone else because you have no need to PM yourself ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Just as a matter of interest and to help get things in to perspective what is the car make, how old is it, how much did you pay for it and has it got any obvious defects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 [quote user="madds"].......since found out that entries in the service record and indications under the bonnet concerning maintenance work done are not true. I have contacted the previous owners who have confirmed my suspicions. [/quote]Falsifying a vehicle's service record to dishonestly induce a buyer to believe that maintenance work has been carried out is fraud. If you have evidence that your seller is responsible for the falsification, then confront him with it and demand that he takes the car back and refunds your money otherwise you will report the matter to the gendarmerie. On the other hand, if you'd prefer to keep the car, then you could invite him to pay for the fictitous maintenance work to be 're-done' thereby removing the need to involve the law...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 But is it really of legal consequence or actionable for a UK regged car ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 [quote user="AnOther"]But is it really of legal consequence or actionable for a UK regged car ?[/quote]I think I am right in saying yes. The reason being is the fact that it's a car in not particularly important neither is the fact that it is on UK plates. It could be any object or service and if a person sells something which it clearly isn't or an attempt has been made to disguise something then as SD says it's fraud.The reason I asked about make, price age etc is because it may simply not be worth instigating any legal action. The other thing is that it is difficult to say much unless you have seen the documents, looked at the car etc.Personally I would approach the seller but not with a 'big stick' at first. I would go along the line of I have looked at the service documents, looked at the car, spoken to the owner before you and something does not appear to be right. Perhaps the seller does not understand cars, perhaps they have been ripped off or misled in some way and are not aware there are some discrepancies, you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Did the OP buy the vehicle off the AI site? I'm not surprised its rogue if he/she did as people will try and palm any old rubbish off on that site as they try to with property as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 We don't know the details but if the car is not legally on the road in France surely that must make a difference ?Aside from possible vice caché implications though remember it's illegal for a French resident to sell a foreign registered vehicle, that might be a bigger and more immediate stick to threaten with, assuming the seller was French resident of course. If he/she isn't then any and all talk of retrospective action becomes somewhat moot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I think that technically yes, it is fraud. However I think trying to persuade the Gendarmes to give a damn will be a very steep uphill struggle. As for legal action through the courts - A friend of mine is going through this after a local small garage worked on her car and it failed catastrophically on the motorway a week later. This happened last summer. Her car is still hundreds of miles away in storage at a garage having been inspected and awaiting the next step, she is out of pocket by a lot of money for legal fees etc and has had to buy another car in the meantime. There is still no sign of things being concluded any time soon either. All in all, she reckons it has been a complete farce and even if she recovers all costs, which is in no way certain, she reckons it was simply not worth a year of hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 And you Dave,a guy who knows motors and the motor trade very well indeed, are you of the opinion that what the garage did, didnt do or failed to do properly was likely to have been the cause of the blow up? I would imagine so or I couldnt see you letting her in for all this grief otherwise.Wollybanana eventually got a result in a similar case of engine failure on his campervan.I know someone else who eventually won against a garage, he like Wooly had his protection juridique behind him although I thought it was scandalous that they didnt admit responsibility immediately it was so blatant and that it took so long before the expert was able to hang them out to dry, it was a big 4*4 BMW, during a routine service and injector replacement IIRC at a main dealer the engine blew up when the mechanic restarted it, the fairies had caused a hole to appear in the top of one piston, nothing to do with them of course, it was just one of those things, could have happened at any time, it will cost you X thousands of Euros for a new engine [:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 When I left the RAF and went in to computers if I had a pound for every time I heard a customer say, after a PM (preventative maintenance, like servicing a car) "It was working fine till your engineer did the service" I would be a very wealthy man. Well once or twice it was down to the engineer but many times it was just pot luck and unfortunately it was the engineer who was the last person to touch it, it could have been a user but that's sods law I suppose. Interestingly it made me start my first business as an independent inspector/consultant to discover if it was something and engineer did or just bad luck, most of the time it was the latter. Of course I am not suggesting that's either is true in this case (modern engines are far to complicated for me), it's shame they don't have somebody like the AA or RAC in France who you can get to have a look and give an unbiased report. Bet somebody now tells me they do. [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yes Q that is the hard bit to prove isn't it. When this happened to us and our engine had gone completely no one would follow this up and frankly we didn't have the money to do this ourselves, we would have been far too much out of pocket,even if we had won in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 [quote user="Chancer"]And you Dave,a guy who knows motors and the motor trade very well indeed, are you of the opinion that what the garage did, didnt do or failed to do properly was likely to have been the cause of the blow up? I would imagine so or I couldnt see you letting her in for all this grief otherwise.Wollybanana eventually got a result in a similar case of engine failure on his campervan.I know someone else who eventually won against a garage, he like Wooly had his protection juridique behind him although I thought it was scandalous that they didnt admit responsibility immediately it was so blatant and that it took so long before the expert was able to hang them out to dry, it was a big 4*4 BMW, during a routine service and injector replacement IIRC at a main dealer the engine blew up when the mechanic restarted it, the fairies had caused a hole to appear in the top of one piston, nothing to do with them of course, it was just one of those things, could have happened at any time, it will cost you X thousands of Euros for a new engine [:(][/quote]She took the car to him complaining of a "flapping" noise from the engine. Turned out that the auto tensioner for the aux drive belt had seized up and the belt was too loose. A new tensioner was big money from the main dealer and the mechanics suppliers, so she sourced one herself from Oscaro and he fitted that.On the motorway the aux belt came off and was sucked into the timing belt casing and snapped the timing belt. Coasting down from 130kph and her attempts to re-start on the hard shoulder did all sixteen valves and the piston tops took a fair pounding too. I have seen photos and there is no way I would even consider repairing the motor - its scrap. Its "only" a Megane Scenic, probably worth 2k on a good day, but she is a single mother who needs a reliable car.She was towed to a garage who stripped it and eventually made up a report. They found a bolt missing from the tensioner mounting. Seemingly this bolt is a real pain to fit and a bodger may be tempted to not bother with it. The local mechanic insists that he did it properly, and suggests component failure is to blame, shifting liability to Oscaro and/or the part manufacturers. It would seem that apportioning blame is the sticking point, and the case has dragged on for a very long time. She has lost a lot of money and had a lot of hassle and worry over it. Sadly, I would say it was just not worth it, and in retrospect she agrees. An engine from a breakers yard and a days work would have seen her back on the road. Ok, she might still "win" the case, but from what I gather is not guaranteed to get all her money back, especially since the mechanic has since gone into liquidation and is now running the business under his wifes name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.