Bureaucracy

[idun]

Dave, I have quite a few friends in France who run businesses. They are all french and it is no easier for them either, that is why none of them is rich.... and when they get bad staff, they have the same nightmare that you have had, as it is part of the system, so mal foutu and the powers that be do nothing about it.

[EuroTrash]

I think the secret is, to do things in the right order.

"Start a business.

Employ some people. Look how much tax you have to pay

NO.

Start a business, THEN look into how much tax you WOULD HAVE to pay, THEN if you still consider it viable, employ some people.

The same applies to all the examples, really.

In my experience, in France you have to look ahead and see what will fit best around the legislation. You can't start off by deciding what you're going to do and expect the legislation to fit round it, that way madness lies.

It is very limiting and everybody except the government can see that it is bad for France, but until it changes or until there is another revolution, everybody has to work with it.

[dave21478]

No shit, Sherlock.

I was listing things this chap should perhaps try doing to get an idea of French paperwork. So he has an easy ride when he deals with his health cover, well I am overwhelmed with happiness for him, but pretty much every facet of French bureaucracy is made needlessly difficult just because it has always been that way and nobody is willing to change that, despite it crushing the enterprising spirit out of anyone daring to try to get ahead.

You suggest its best to look ahead and see what will fit best around the legislation. Well, thats a fine theory, however, when the "rules" change significantly depending on who you talk to and whether they can be bothered to do their job, then no amount of advance planning can help you.

The last three times I have been to the tax office, I have asked the same question of three different people and received three different answers. Not just minor variations in interpretation of the rules, but wildly differing, conflicting answers.... Basically, they dont know the answer, but dont want to look incompetant, so they feed me whatever they think I will believe to get rid of me, which frankly suits my needs right down to the ground at the moment.

[nomoss]

I have found that getting into someone's office, sitting down opposite them and then trying not to leave empty handed tends to produce results.

I remember it worked years ago in Algeria, where the same mentality prevailed. One of our kids used to do a similar thing - still does, come to think of it[8-)]

I don't mean actually saying I'm not leaving, but coming up with plausible new reasons to reconsider the request.

A lady we asked to supply a letter stating we had been paying taxes in France for at least a year said she didn't have the authority to do that, and that such a thing didn't exist.

After I explained the reason we needed it in great detail and at great length, and telling how hopelessly bureaucratic the Spanish are, she came up with a nicely typed A4 sheet headed "Cetificat", which she signed, and added a couple of official looking rubber stamps. She eventually found it all quite amusing, apparently not noticing any irony[:D]

The nice man issuing a Quitus fiscal eventually decided he could verify our address through his computer to save my going back home to get a services bill.

It is also helpful to ask for an official by name the next time, sometimes it can get one straight into their office.

Edit: Always make sure to shake hands with everyone too! [:D]