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This will either make you chuckle or nod your head wisely

Mrs HSD had to go and get a new CG at the prefecture for our newly mended car. The expert had given her the relevant piece of paper with a "that's all you need" added on

Pref: I need document X

mrs: But this is all I've got and the expert says it's all I need

Pref: I need docu.....  (you get the picture ... many iterations later)

mrs: can you speak to the expert now? I can phone him up so you can speak to him

Pref: you can't do that from in here, you have to go outside

So she went outside to phone him, and he confirmed that she didn't need it. On turning round to go back in she was stopped and told..."it's lunch time...we're closed...come back this afternoon"

That afternoon.....

mrs: (to someone else at the Prefecture) I really don't need this document X

Pref no 2: no you don't...we can override the system

mrs: can you do that then?

Pref no 2: No

mrs: why not?

Pref no 2: my boss is the only one who can do it

mrs: can you ask him please?

Pref no 2: No

mrs: why not?

Pref no 2: He's not here

mrs: when is he back in?

Pref no 2: He's gone on his summer holiday

[:@][:@][:@]

They really have no fecking clue !!

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Looking for Curry sauce once in Hyper U we found the usual shelf empty. Upon asking an assistant where the Curry was, she simply said, 'the member of staff responsible for Curry was on holiday and would be back in two weeks'. Unbelievable. Your tale seems to be the norm here unfortunately.
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Truth is that some of the fonctionnaires in France are better than they used to be. But don't we all expect a battle and non sense when dealing with them?[Www]

Holedigger, I believe that you are well off the mark there. I agree that there are some useless, obtuse, incompetent civil servants in the UK, but at the end of the day, they will have to get much much worse before they are a match for their confreres outre-manche.

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HMRC have re-invented and re-organised themselves in the last couple of years.

Admittedly, they do get it wrong on more times than you'd ideally like, but I have found dealing with them over the phone on my getting tax back etc etc, they have been very helpful, but you often need to get to speak to a technical specialist before it is all straight.  The usual end-off-telephone-call-centre goons do not know what to do when you live overseas, so you are nearly always referred to the specialists, and they sort it for you!

Which reminds me, I have another coding gone wrong call to make ...here we go again !!

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"dealing with them over the phone on my getting tax back"

That is one example where HMRC need to modernise.

They are unable to send a bank transfer to a French bank account (unlike Pensions for example)

A tax rebate is  sent as a cheque, which has to go into a UK account....which I don't have.

So it isn't only in France that there are these sort of problems.

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I've had tax errors in France, usually my fault. I drive to the tax office 15 kilometers away, speak to someone who has my tax file and it's sorted there and then. I don't find the ladies in the tax office here the least bit unhelpful.

On the other and, leaving the UK tax system took ages. The telephone person didn't know anything and wouldn't connect me to anyone who did. Has anyone in the UK EVER talked face to face with an income tax inspector? When I was working, my tax office was always conveniently located at the other end of the country.

As former subjects of HMG I think we are in a very weak position to lecture anyone on poor service in general and on official incompetence in particular.
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I live in the NE of England now and we have two tax offices within 10 miles. My nearest tax office in France was 25 miles away, which never stopped me going. 

I am still having problems with french fonctionnaires, far more than I have with civil servants in the UK. The worst example was that it took them over a year to send out our CEAM, and when you think that they are only valid for a year, then when does one apply for the next one? I could write pages and pages about the problems in both countries, but even now, have more problems in France than the UK.

All our income comes from France, we were in France for a long long time and moved back five years ago.

So I am in a very good position to compare.

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It is a learning cycle really and after a while you develop the French shoulder shrug. Trying to get anything done buy a functionaire from mid July to mid September is basically not on. It is holiday season and half the 'team' of anything you want done will be away. When they come back the other half goes. Thats the way it is and I doubt it will ever change. What you do develop is ways to use the system and sometimes to your advantage. Getting one over the system in France is like a national pastime and those that actually manage it are often regarded (for a short while) as some type of hero (or heroine). That said it is the same but different to the UK, the UK has its own idiosyncrasies just like France as do many other countries. What you need to do is work out what they are then work round them.
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I guess your tax office is now in Southampton and that your local tax office won't know you personally and will provide you with a shrug and a telephone.

My affairs here are fairly simple but I've found engaging with French state and local officials relatively straightforward.

CEAM takes 3 weeks, if you need one earlier go to your caisse and get an attestation.

I have had quite a bit of contact with the French medical service and the difference in effectiveness and attitude between that and the NHS is remarkable. Rather than use the CEAM in the UK I'd prefer to crawl back here to use my Carte Vitale.

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But I am not lying, our CEAM cards took over a year. If the next ones take three weeks, I shall be shocked. I live in the UK and we still have french CEAM's! And as I live in the NE of England now, our tax office is not anywhere near Southampton, although I have friends near Southampton, but it is a rather long drive down there from here. Incidentally I asked for new copies of our Attestations from the CPAM and that was in June, 6 weeks ago, ours had expired, but they have not come.

And the NHS, well it has been fine, different to France, but certainly no worse but no better either. I had the misfortune to have a 10 day stay in a french hospital and the nurses  were horrible. They were obstructive, rude, unhelpful and arrogant and completely lacking in any compassion.  And I got the better of them, in spite of them assuring me that I would not. I wouldn't have let one of those nurses on the endocronology ward and a few from les urgences be in charge of my pet hamster, never mind people. The aides soignantes were brilliant though, but they are not nurses.

I had my babies in France in the early 80's and that was OK. We, as a family have had much contact with the french health care system too, but do not ever make out to me that France has some particular magnificent and outstanding health system because it isn't. And I don't care what any statistics you show me say, I know full well how France works and what is put on official record. It is a system with faults like everywhere else and not a shining example. And as I know lots of people I can give you enough stories to go on and on and on about the 'problems'. And we'll start with my 10 day hospital stay when the nurses refused to give the lady in the room with me any pain relief for her rotten toe, which was just about gangrenous, she had to wait a further two hours, before they came back and then they complained very nastily, in fact every time they saw her they had a go at her, she was in her 80's and as they say in France for such people.......... 'adorable'. And a lady I used to know quite well, the surgeon cut off her daughter's  wrong leg. Ofcourse that meant she ended up losing both legs. Don't go there. I really can go on and on and on.

What I will agree is that it is possible to have good health care in France, and we can and do in the UK too.

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I've obviously been very lucky

If you became resident in the UK 5 years ago why aren't you covered by the NHS?

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1087.aspx?categoryid=68&subcategoryid=162

I can't see how you are entitled to CPAM cover if you are resident in the UK and paying tax to HMG.

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I think you will find that idun is still a French tax payer despite living in UK.

Anyone who finds French bureaucracy OK cannot surely have ever worked in France. Having spent 10 months trying to get the Caisse de Congés Payés to pay us OUR money I finally resorted to speaking to the Prudhommes who said 'Vous êtes très tenace Madame, le plupart des gens laissent tomber'! And we were talking about 2000€!

The French medical system is a postcode lottery the same as the UK. I've sat for hours in a French A & E and I know those who have done the same in UK. However I broke my ankle in March here in UK and was seen, X-rayed, plastered and returned home with a specialists appointment for the follwing day, all within 2 hours and the care and the staff were all excellent. It really does depend where you land up.

Most French officials I have dealt with have been perfectly pleasant and completely and utterly inefficient.
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LOL you certainly have the right name Holedigger because you certainly are digging yourself into a hole.[:)]

I live in the Uk. Only a french income, therefore we pay cotisations in France and get an S1 from France that we have to hand into the UK authorities, and believe me, we had Newcastle after us for the S1 as the french took over a year to send that to us!!! And as we get an S1 from France, then we have to have a CEAM from France too and a CV and an attestation, WHEN they can be bothered to do their jobs and give us what we are entitled to.

As Cerise mentioned at one point since our move back we were paying taxes in France and in the UK, but only pay tax in the UK now, which in theory the french impots know about, but we'll have to wait and see if they have really understood the rules.

What you can see or not see is a question of learning what is what. At one point we were even paying PAYE in France, who would have thought! It does exist for the likes of us, but is unusual.

And remember that if someone of state retirement age moves to France, then depending on where they get their pension from, ie they may have worked in France, too, which would cloud things.........but in many cases, no matter how long they live in France, once that UK state pension kicks in then they have to hand in an S1 from the UK to the french health authorities and get their EHIC from the UK.

I was in France for nearly 30 years, so by necessity and being interested and curious,  know rather a lot about France. And as I will always be connected to France financially and my son lives there as do some of my best friends, I remain very interested in France.

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At the risk of digging myself deeper into my hole why on earth is a UK taxpaying resident using a French issued CEAM? A French CEAM is intended for temporary visits outside France for holidays or short term work/study displacements.

I wish idun the best of luck with the her endeavours but I'm surprised she's getting any joy at all from officials dans ce coin.
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I know there are all kinds of exceptions to every rule but it's hard not to agree with Holedigger - it's not too surprising that CPAM has to scratch its head for a long time to work out why it should be sending a CEAM to someone who lives in the UK.

The norm, surely, would be for a UK resident earning money in France to be paying French tax as a non-resident, declaring worldwide income in the UK and covered by the NHS.
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[quote user="Holedigger"]At the risk of digging myself deeper into my hole why on earth is a UK taxpaying resident using a French issued CEAM? A French CEAM is intended for temporary visits outside France for holidays or short term work/study displacements. I wish idun the best of luck with the her endeavours but I'm surprised she's getting any joy at all from officials dans ce coin.[/quote]

Idun seems to be an EU citizen, resident in UK and paying taxes there on income arising in France. As this income is subject to cotisations in France it presumably originates from some commercial activity in France.

As far as I know, she has never stated that either she or her OH have British nationality.

 

 

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I still don't see the logic. Income arising in France would normally be taxable in France, and as a UK resident one would declare worldwide earnings to HMRC. But it doesn't necessarily follow that the French income would also be subject to French cotisations.

Many UK residents rent out holiday homes in France and pay French tax on the income, but they don't pay French cotisations.
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We are lucky to have some french posters on this board, but I am 'home' now, whatever that really means, which is the NE of England, and am english.

All this stuff isn't rocket science you know. This is quite simply EU rules and french ones come to think. And there are fonctionnaires who know exactly what this is all about. Sadly some of them are lazy and useless so do not do their jobs with any sort of efficiency or competence, but with much cajoling and eventually threats, it is amazing what they can really do.

And we cannot print anything from the CPAM site as we are swopped between two or three ameli's[Www].

I have mentioned briefly some of the problems we have had with getting some things sorted since we moved back, but really I don't discuss all our business on here. And the truth is, as I have said, when we first got to France we didn't even have a phone at home, but we rented whilst we had a house built had kids and lived lives without a hint of the internet for almost twenty years, although we did get a phone two years after we moved to France. I had to use my imagination to get things done and be tenacious. In my own little way I can be quite formidable and am most certainly very independent.

Our circumstances are not that much different to many other posters, just in the opposite direction.[:D]

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Eurotrash, I admit when I first realised how we would be treat, then I was shocked, especially as when the french PAYE started, it was almost twice the amount of tax that we paid on french income when we lived in France. And the cotisatons changed too.

We are doing everything properly and I have told you our situation. IF I thought you were in any way at all in our situation, then I would explain all by PM in detail. I won't deny that it is not complicated.  We are unusual, remember we moved to France when no one really was and as was always planned have moved back to England.

I am amused that a few of you seem to feel that we might be doing something wrong, we aren't. But these few posts have left me sat here smiling that is for sure.

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[quote user="idun"] ...............................................................
And we cannot print anything from the CPAM site as we are swopped between two or three ameli's[Www].

...........................................................
[/quote]

I don't understand the bit about "two or three ameli's"

"ameli" is an acronym for l'Assurance Maladie en ligne, there is only one "Assurance Maladie", and it is quite simple to create one's online account.

Do you mean that your health insurance in France is covered by a different regime from the AMO?

 

 

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I didn't think you were purposely doing anything wrong, but was just thinking that you might have ended up paying out more than you needed to by paying into the French system when UK NICs are so much lower. But if they say you have to, then you have to.
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Nomoss, I know that, just a bit of silliness about it. I have to get in touch with three different CPAM places in France, one is our old office and another over in the west somewhere and the other in Normandy, all written down in the file. I don't know why these different offices deal with us now, but I have tried and not had access to the account.

I might just try again, it would be good if we could.

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