Can our buyers pull out

[torchon]

We signed the Compromis de Vente on 27th July, our French buyers now want to pull out.

We have received a letter from the notaire with a form for us to sign cancelling the contract. He is quoting two reasons

1. There are some windows in the barn which overlook a neighbours field and are too close to the boundary.

2. One of the barn walls is in  a bad condition and will take 10,000 euros to repair.

Can they really pull out like this, we are willing to reduce the price by the 10,000 euros to help them out. We really want this sale to go ahead as it has wasted 3 months.

Do we have to sign the form?

[Llwyncelyn]

I am not an expert on French law and will some experience of English Law.

However my understanding of the compromis situation is that you have seven days cooling off period and that is after the signing by both parties.  Indeed here in France there is a general acceptance that you have to look after yourself and take all reasonable steps to ensure you know what you are letting yourself in for.

Thus the purchasers must have seen your house for sale? perhaps once perhaps twice?

Then paid the 10% or even 5% deposit

Then seven days after that they are bound and they lose their deposit and in theory you can enforce the sale.

Surely there must be more to this than what appears for the acte de vente would be due for signing within days?

If it were me I would go to the Notaire stand your ground and ask what is happening.  Something behind this.

I would not sign any document at all and in the final analysis you are entitled so I believe to the 10% deposit plus damages.

I may be wrong so please do not act upon my thoughts without checking and on this forum there are much more experienced people than I.

rdgs

[Will]

Best thing to do is to discuss it with the notaire and/or agent. But before you do this, two questions for you:

1. Were there any clauses in the compromis de vente that allowed the contract to be cancelled under the circumstances you mention?

2. Is it less than seven days since you received your copy of the compromis de vente with the signatures of all parties involved?

From what you say it would seem that the answer to both questions is no. If that is the case then under French contract law, if the buyers want to withdraw then they can only do so if they pay a penalty (usually 10%, and probably plus any costs incurred by agents, notaire etc).

But before refusing to agree to the buyers' wishes you have to ask yourself whether or not you want to rock the boat. If you are leaving the area then it will probably not matter, but if you are moving within the locality it could make things awkward in the future.

Edit - further to the above reply, it should be pointed out (for others' benefit rather than yours) that the seven day so-called cooling-off period applies only to the buyer, not the seller.

[Pads]

Will im certainly not arguing with you as your post are always more imformed than mine, but this is what we were told when we were bying our house:

If after the 7 days cooling off period we (The buyer) pulled out the seller would keep our deposit we paid 7 days after signing the compromis de vente. If the seller pulled out then they would have to give us our money back plus give us the same amount as well. Plus they did have the 7 days cooling off period as I can remenber being on tenter hooks for those 7 days waiting to hear if they had or not.

 But this is only what we were told .............Maybe some areas/ notaires do it differently . Or maybe we were misinformed as we never had to test it thankfully. 

Good luck to the poster hope it all works out well 

[Gluestick]

If, subsequent to the sale, the buyer "Discovers" serious structural defects which were known to you but unknown to the buyer, then they can apparently take action against the seller for the cost of remedy.

Perhaps the buyers have "Discovered" apparent problems, such as the windows not in accordance with local/national planning law in the course of the various searches and etc.

I would agree with Will on a number of fronts: first off, arrange a "Rendevous" with the notaire. If your French is not really excellent then take a fluentish French speaker with you!

If - it happens! - the notaire is not acting independantly, as they are bound to do, but acting more in the buyer's cause due to local politics, association, commune relationships whatever, then you do have a problem.

The reality is unfortunately simple: for you to take any legal action and seek redress may well take an inordinate time and cost you more than the lost sale!

It would also impugne any future relationship your would expect to develop in the commune.

Perhaps after speaking with the notaire and if you cannot be provided with some realistic and correct legal explanation for the notaire's position, perhaps you might care to appoint your own notaire, from outside the immediate area.

At which point you may well find that the original notaire has "Made a mistake due to pressure of work etc"!!

The wheels of justice grind awful slow: in France, at times, it does really appear as if the wheel is broke!

Start seeking another buyer.....................

 

[AnOther]

One can't help but wonder why it's taken from July 27th to now for these "problems" to surface. It does smack of a hidden agenda and I think your next step has to be to have the property independantly surveyed to see if the claims have merit or not.

Now that you have been made aware of the possibility of defects you will have to disclose them to a future buyer so you have to know for sure and obviously if they are founded you will have to either make repairs or reduce your asking price accordingly.

Notwithstanding the above sadly I agree with Gluestick that whatever the rights and wrongs legal action could drag on for a very very long time and you'd be better served by cutting loose and moving on.

[Gastines]

We had a very similar scenario on one house we sold over here. Just as the buyer was supposed to complete we had a phone call saying the lintel.nearly 3mtrs long, in the front of the house had broken and that the buyer had a builder to look at it and the repair cost was in the region of 8000 euros. They would only proceed if we met them on the cost of the repair.. As it was pouring with rain we dreaded to think what the damage was, so we rushed up to the house, fortunately only about 8kms away, with a load of accro's and tarpaulins. When we got there it was exactly as left!!!!    We came to the conclusion that they thought we were in UK but actually bought another house in the next commune!!!   We had the same agents photo's of the house from when we bought it showing the beam with a slight curve in it. The neighbour advised it was like that when installed 12 years previously. We told the Notaire ,same price, no reduction and if the buyer doesn't want to proceed, that's OK with us. They proceeded with not another word.

Not only Buyer beware but Seller beware as well.

Regards.

[bloodyestateagent]

I don't think it is that easy for your buyers to pull out.

Unless the wall has deteriorated since the time they viewed the property, or unless they included an obscure suspensive clause, then there is no comeback on the wall as far as I can see.

Windows overlooking a neighbour may be more of an issue. Did you obtain approval for the windows (assuming they are new)? Even if not, you may be able to apply for retrospective permission. Would be worth speaking to you neighbour & the mairie as you will need to get this sorted in any case.

I sometimes think that notaires will let French buyers walk away from their obligations with English sellers. Often if you let the notaire know that you will not be walked over (and are seeking legal advice) they will back off. If your buyers want to walk away they should have to pay you some compensation.

[freddy]

[quote user="bloodyestateagent"]

I don't think it is that easy for your buyers to pull out.

Unless the wall has deteriorated since the time they viewed the property, or unless they included an obscure suspensive clause, then there is no comeback on the wall as far as I can see.

Windows overlooking a neighbour may be more of an issue. Did you obtain approval for the windows (assuming they are new)? Even if not, you may be able to apply for retrospective permission. Would be worth speaking to you neighbour & the mairie as you will need to get this sorted in any case.

I sometimes think that notaires will let French buyers walk away from their obligations with English sellers. Often if you let the notaire know that you will not be walked over (and are seeking legal advice) they will back off. If your buyers want to walk away they should have to pay you some compensation.

[/quote]

I would have thought the other way round - the position of the windows must have been obvious when they first viewed so they cannto claim they didn't know about it- the fact that the wall was unsound may not have been aparent, but even here I think they might have to show you knew there was a problem and didn't reveal it.

As above talk to the notaire and also the agent (the agent is more likely to tell you how to fight your corner as he/she will see the comission going up in smoke) - it is quite likely that they have changed their mind and are just trying it on - go in, at least initially, quite strong amking it clear that they may pull out if they wish but the deposit will not be returned as the property is in the same state as when they viewed it and nothing has materially changed to invaildate the contract.

Good luck!!

[Gyn_Paul]

Any news yet Torchon ?

p