glacier1 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Another WW2 post! loool. I'm curious. At the end of the battle for france, armastice etc. What did the Germans/Italians do with the vast quantities of French trucks/tanks/aeroplanes/weapons? Are there any account of French tanks or French aeroplanes been used against the Allies? Which Axis country used the most French equipement? (I would have thought the Hungarian Army needed trucks/tanks to re-equip it's army for Barbarossa?). Did Vichy France supply the Germans with tanks/planes for it's army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier1 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 Also, we must not forget, the BEF left all it's equipement in France, what happened to all the British trucks/tanks/aircraft captured by the Germans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I don't know a lot about this, Glacier. However, very close to us (near the small town of Ballon) there is a Sherman tank parked by the side of the road. According to the info' on the plaque, the French soldiers killed near by were the first French casualties post liberation, and they were killed when a small number of German troops occupied the nearby hamlet of Meziers. I had stopped there one day and was parked (as it happened with a load of mates in their Cobras), and a local bloke stopped and told me that there are still loads of German tanks and other equipment round this area. I've never looked into it further (I've been pretty much busy or indesposed since!) but am determined to do so one day.[IMG]http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q103/cooperlola/D40practiceandCavalcade026-1.jpg[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 IIRC, some (but probably very little) equipment was impressed into service on the Axis side: much that was left behind was sabotaged, battle-damaged or in need of (non-existent) replacement parts and suitable only for scrap. Some aircraft were repaired and used for clandestine purposes, but again VERY few.RegardsPickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventodue Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I guess you know what happened to (most of) the French fleet, i.e. Mers-el-Kebir ...?CheersCraig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier1 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 sure, a decision by Churchill to sink the ships rather than let them all fall into German/Italian hands. It saved the North African convoys from attack during the dark years of 1940/41. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 [quote user="ventodue"]I guess you know what happened to (most of) the French fleet, i.e. Mers-el-Kebir ...?CheersCraig[/quote]They were given 3 choices, hand them over to the RN, scuttle or sail away to distant French (Vichy) ports. All choices were rejected, so they were sunk. Not unreasonable in the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 [quote user="powerdesal"]They were given 3 choices, hand them over to the RN, scuttle or sail away to distant French (Vichy) ports. All choices were rejected, so they were sunk. Not unreasonable in the circumstances.[/quote]Ah, but whilst not in any way challenging the veracity of your summary of events, I don't think that the French see it that way - when I've come across references to Mers-el-Kebir in French books, there is a tendency for them to refer to it as being an act of treachery by the British. I think that there are a couple of reasons for this: 1) "the fog of war": the situation was confused and there were breakdowns in communication, on both British and French sides; 2) it is all wrapped up in the taboo subjects of who had responsibility for the fall of France and the internal machinations of the Vichy government. Compare: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_Mers_el_K%C3%A9bir with http://www.ledrame-merselkebir.fr/.RegardsPickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 There is the small[:@]matter of some 1300 French sailors being killed. No wonder the French do not see it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 The killing of the 1300 or so French sailors (and no doubt seriously wounding lots more) was not a small thing at all. However, when considered against the potential allied losses that would have occurred if those ships had ended up in axis hands..............I would not expect the French people to be supportive of the action, it would be an unreasonable expectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I was always amazed to find that in Rotterdam no-one expressed any dislike for the British (the RAF practically flattened the city, trying to deny the Germans the use of the port) - instead the blame was placed squarely on the occupying forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier1 Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Did anybody see the made for tv film based upon the "what if" of a German invasion of mainland Britain (operation sealion), and what would have happened based upon captured documents underlying who was to be arrested, and what would happen if the German's invaded (covert operations by special services). It was on BSkyB's History a few months back? Facinating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welly Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 [quote user="Boiling a frog"]There is the small[:@]matter of some 1300 French sailors being killed. No wonder the French do not see it that way.[/quote]It amazes me to watch all the History regarding WWII on TV, they always quickly skim over, the wipe out at AUNAY SUR ODON, a whole village was destroyed 1 person survived... another small matter I think...This town was rebuilt by the swiss, but the area are still resuming metal buried from Tanks etc.... so a large amount that got stuck were just buried I assume. wellyI would love to know more about the History of this Village right back to middle ages.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier1 Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 didn't the SS division involved in the massacre of the villagers pick the wrong village. I think the village is to the west of the ardeche, in the mountains. This all happened in August 1944 I believe while the German divisions were retreating up through France, closely followed by the Americans and French after the little known invasion of the south of France. I think, please correct me if I'm wrong....it was due to a few soldiers being killed by a French sniper or sabotage, that they took this drastic action. This SS division was sent to re-equip in the relative safety of the South of France, before, it was in Russia where the scortched earth policy applied. This only happened once in France, but it happened all the time in Russia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 You may be thinking of Oradour sur Glane where the SS massacre took place.Aunay-sur-Odon is a village in Normandy situated at a strategic crossroads which was bombed by the allies during the 1944 Normandy landings.Our local town, Cerizay, was destroyed by the Germans in retaliation for a Maquis attack on a truck convoy. Fortunately, the Germans decided to clear the town of inhabitants before they set fire to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hi!There is little information on the subject, even if you enter : Devenir de l'armement français en 1940 ( or 1941).On such matters they are rather discreet.1. First you would have to go into the question if French and German armament had the same norms, and to find out if the French factories continued to operate for the Germans.2. During the war, the Germans collected in the occupied areas, all cars, radios etc.on the main squares, and then dismounted the spare parts they could require - If this a really useful I do not know - All I can remember is the junk heap on the square, where we children used to play.They also collected scrap material, for foundries, which went as far as taking big statues. Yours,giantpanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote user="glacier1"]didn't the SS division involved in the massacre of the villagers pick the wrong village. I think the village is to the west of the ardeche, in the mountains. This all happened in August 1944 I believe while the German divisions were retreating up through France, closely followed by the Americans and French after the little known invasion of the south of France. I think, please correct me if I'm wrong....it was due to a few soldiers being killed by a French sniper or sabotage, that they took this drastic action. This SS division was sent to re-equip in the relative safety of the South of France, before, it was in Russia where the scortched earth policy applied. This only happened once in France, but it happened all the time in Russia! [/quote]You may like to read this thread:http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1278094/ShowPost.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob T Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 The Germans also flattened Rouffignac-st-Cernin just up the road from me. Here they also removed the inhabitants but before that they made them pack up all their belonging onto wagons to be taken to Germany.The only building that survived was the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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