Snakes alive!

[Christine Animal]

Calling baby birds, baby birds was not to "humanise" them in any way, that is what we have always called them.  I thought chicks were baby chickens.  Maybe I have been in France too long... and really such trivialities are not of any importance to me.

It has been nice on this forum lately without this type of thing, such as personal remarks about being committed to animal welfare, calling yourself Christine Animal, etc. When I originally logged on I gave my name as Christine Animal Aid, there was no room for the Aid, so I came out as Christine Animal, that is how it came about.

 

 

[Dick Smith]

OK I give in, you are absolutely right, little birds are babies. Or whatever.

[TWINKLE]

Last summer I was home alone with my daughter (6 years old at the time) and we had a doorstep visit from a local viper, she almost trod on it and was bare foot at the time.  I have a phobia of snakes (can't even see them on the telly) but the survival instinct kicked in and what I did to that reptile doesn't bare thinking about!  I was posessed[:-))] 

 Anyway, I killed the snake and I would do it again if I had to!

Normally I wouldn't hurt a fly...

What's up Dick?  Chill out for Gods sake, go and have a nice pint of Pride and wish us all a happy mothers day!

[chris pp]

But why Twinkle do you think that you have to or for that matter had to kill the snake?

The only possible reason for anyone to kill a snake is a lack of understanding of their nature.

If you don't understand something there are other solutions besides killing. What you did in the past is one thing, but now you have been given the opportunity to find out about them there should be no reason to kill them in the future I hope.

Chris

 

 

[Christine Animal]

But at least she had the courage to come on here and say what she did.  She did not have to and a lot of people would not have done.  I respect her for that.

 

[Hoddy]

I think that this thread is more about people than it is about animals. Most of us have our favourites and we all react differently in different situations.  A couple of years ago I chased a buzzard off when it was killing a partiridge in my field. When I stop and think, I probably prefer buzzards to partridges, but in the heat of the moment I didn't want to see the partridge killed.

I'd be surprised if any of really believe that all animals are equal when it comes down to it. I try to like the animals for their essential nature, which doesn't include endowing them with human qualities. I don't always succeed though. I can't stand foxes.

Hoddy

[Christine Animal]

And I seem to remember you also had a snake problem Hoddy.

By the way, there is no longer any sign of life around the nest.  You are probably right Chris about the snake not being able to eat two "babies".  I understood he "ate" two, but maybe Jean-Pierre said he "had" two, with this accent.  He says one dropped to the floor still alive which he put in a box high up for the mother to be able to reach, but of course today it is dead, then another dropped to the floor, dead, with a lot of its down missing (hope I have used the correct word) and a third one in the same condition dropped down at the same time as the snake who then went on his way.

 

[ali-cat]

I agree with Twinkle & Christine. 

As Twinks said - survival instinct kicked in - she was with her 6 year old daughter at the time & would still do the same to protect her child.  Nothing is wrong with that.  The snake may have been totally harmless - but I, for one, won't know it's "intentions" if suddenly confronted by one.

If at all possible, I won't kill anything - but if it an animal threatened any member of my family (& yes, I do include the cats, in that!!) I would do all I could to protect them.  In fact, I was up at 3.00am this morning when a cat fight woke me.  I was dandering around in the garden checking my 3 were ok (my boy's were actually protecting Penny from a big tom from down the street!). [:-))]

Now that I think about it - wasn't Twinkle only doing the "natural thing"?

 

 

[Kitty]

 Has anyone a picture of the snake that Miggi saw - the couleuvre verte et jaune or Western whip snake?

I'm on the side of:

* mothers - we need all the help we can

I'm not on the side of:

* snakes - never have been and never will.  If I ever I see one, I make sure that it gets out of my way with a stick.  And Twinkle, if it had been on my doorstep, I would have done the same thing as you...

[Hoddy]

Christine, you remember correctly. These snakes sit a few feet from my living room door and raise their head and hiss at me if I have the audacity to want to go in. They certainly haven't read the books which say they're supposed to go away if I disturb them. I think mine are western whips too. Or they could be couleve jaune et verte, I'm not absolutely sure. Nice looking things, but I'm not having them near my grandchildren.

Hoddy

[chris pp]

http://www.planetepassion.com/SPECIES%20FACT%20SHEETS/snakes_of_france.htm

Please take a little bit of time to read it.

Fear eats the soul.

Chris

 

[Miggimeggi]

Ooops! I suddenly feel as if I am a strange and unusual pervert for liking snakes. They are simply what their nature dictates and have not the brain power to have anything so sophisticated as "intentions", just some instincts to feed, reproduce, defend themselves and to flee.

I had not intended to provoke this kind of debate and am sorry if my original post has annoyed or upset anyone.

Anne

Anne

[Hoddy]

Miggimeggi, I've removed you're duplicated post and the apology for it.

I don't think you should apologise for making us think and consider other people's points of view. I'm sure it's good for us.

Hoddy.

[Unknown]

I would also like to applaud Dick for apologising.  Its good to have debates like these and there are bound to be differences of opinion.  Dick 'you the man'  sorry I have been watching one of my kids dvd's.

By the way, it has nothing to do with Mother's day, just when I read this thread earlier today I had just been given lots of homemade cards by the kids and felt all lovey in side.

[:)]

 

[Dog]

I have a good picture of a whip snake taken in my garden it took me two hours of very careful quiet waiting. These are very nervous snakes who dislike human presence. If you have a problem with one call me and I will rehome it.

Remember Dick does not understand specieism he drives a Volvo.

When I was two years old and my brother three we had two rattlesnakes enter our tent (in Canada) my mother grabbed both snakes and threw them out.

[Dick Smith]

I understand speciesism well enough to spell it properly.

I also understand speciation, which is what I mentioned. I don't understand your 'joke'. Do you?

[Iceni]

Chris - thanks for this link but our snake(s) don't seem to appear on yr list.

Home is north Lot.

Snake description - probably about 1 m long, maybe 30/35 mm girth, colour = light, shiny olive green with no apparent markings, no idea as to head or shape - far too quck for me. First spotted at top end of field where it seemed to reside under neighbour's pallet of tiles. Seen yesterday, probably sunbathing, on driveway slope about 75/80m from the tiles. Same snake or are we being over-run by (two of) them ? Smaller version, no more than 20/30 cm, spotted last week in rockery.

Despite having lived most of my life in rural N Essex I only saw 1 snake all my time in England, hence my lack of knowledge. I know that they are supposed to be more scared of me than I am of them - but how can I be sure that they believe this ? Whereas Di, who lived for a time in Nigeria is not concerned in the slightest.

TIA

John

not

[chris pp]

Hi John,

From your description you have two possibilities, in fact you may have both of them, who knows?

You could have a look at the photo on the "What snake is this" thread the other week. That, as was pointed out, is a slow worm or Orvet, but these never grow longer than 50 or 60 centimetres max.

The other is Elaphe longissima. I have added another photo on my site for this species this morning which hopefully shows it in a different light, try having another look at it.

I should add that it is possible, but rare, to find single colour grass snakes.

I have to say I am surprised at the number of people, many I assume are Brits, who are afraid of their own shadow, passing these irrational fears on to children does them no favours at all, if you have a phobia try not to pass it on to future generations. We are supposed to be intelligent beings, capable of reason and able to understand the world around us, this is what everyone tells me makes us different from the "rest of the natural world" around us. If you are a metre away from a snake in France you are completely safe, it can't strike at you and it will not chase you, a long stick or broom handle will be sufficient to gently encourage it to move on if absolutely necessary.

Chris

 

[Iceni]

Thanks Chris.

Colourwise it looks more like a slow worm than your constrictor.

I take yr point about irrational fears but I suppose it's the unknown factor. I need have no real worries about my snake(s) attacking - they take off long before I get close enough to be in any danger. I just don't fancy a nasty suck when weeding etc.

John

not

[Deimos]

I think different people react differently “in the heat of the situation/perceived threat”.  I know my own reaction is to freeze when unexpectedly faced with a dangerous snake.  I was walking through a tropical dry forest in Central America when I saw a fer-de-lance on the ground about a foot from where I was about to put my foot down (and I know it was a fer-de-lance as it was the one snake I had made sure I could recognise 110% as I was camping alone and did not want problems).  My immediate reaction was to freeze, leg in the air and all.  It was only after a few seconds I realised it was actually dead and thus was not a danger.  It is such circumstances that probably show what out instinctive reaction to perceived danger is – when one does not have time to think as such but more your body just reacts.

 

Ian

[TWINKLE]

[quote user="chris pp"]

http://www.planetepassion.com/SPECIES%20FACT%20SHEETS/snakes_of_france.htm

Please take a little bit of time to read it.

Fear eats the soul.

Chris

 

[/quote]

Ok Chris,

I was alone with my daughter, we live in the sticks and  it would take a doctor or an ambulance at least half an hour to get to us.  I reacted rather violently I know but you see my daughter has a genetic disorder, her body doesn't naturally produce cortisone so she has drugs to atificially replace the hormone.  When she has a fever or is sick we have to double or treble her medication.  If she were to have an accident or an operation (God forbid!) she would need to recieve the drug though a drip.  I can't take the risk of her stepping on a venomous reptile everytime she wants to play in the garden.

I thought that having 5 cats would be enough to keep snakes away from our doorstep.  I now use a repellent around the terraced area and we keep the grass cut short.  I've also purchased an emergency snake-bite kit from the chemist to have on hand just in case.

I have loads of fears that my mum passed onto me and I do all I can not to let my daughter know.  She loves nature and animals and it broke her heart to see me kill the snake, I cried the rain myself.  It was just something that I had to do - I couldn't stop myself.  It really was a case of -  it's the snake or my daughters well-being.

This was the one who got the iron door-stop on it's head[:$]

[chris pp]

Hi Twinkle,  I understand your reaction, although you are probably mistaken about the snake as the one you have posted only lives in the north of France, perhaps that's where you were at that time.

My points, and they are general ones not meant to "bop" any particular individual, is that panic reactions very often do more harm than good, I know, I nearly killed another bloke when I was younger, but we won't go there. If we understand the nature of any given creature there should be no need to kill it, there is almost nothing in France that will attack a human unless severely provoked and given the chance to escape they will.

I don't say this to wind people up and I am not a cuddly tree hugger who can't cope with creatures being killed, I just think that it is better if people know the facts, giving them the chance to relax, enjoy and share the countryside without fear. The fact that you killed a snake is neither here nor there to me, you did what you did, but although you didn't realise it at the time it probably wasn't necessary.

In actual fact, people killing the odd snake here and there, rates fairly low on my list of concerns for the future of the planet, climate change is the biggest challenge, and that will affect our children and our grandchildren if we have them, but I would like people to be able to understand the living world that we are part of and to just accept it for what it is in all its aspects. I know that I have said it before, but we can't pick and choose, everything depends on everything else being there, we feed the birds in winter and then do our best by way of pesticides and the like to make sure they can't have a healthy life for the rest of the year.

Sh*t, I do go on, Chris

 

 

[TWINKLE]

Sorry it was more like this one.

[Miggimeggi]

I was in our local farmers supply store today for dog feed and saw a shelf of various repellants, for dogs & cats, buck and rabbits and also some for "serpents". I don't know if they work and I don't read French quickly enough to get all the details but it may be an answer to helping to keep snakes out of the house. I did pick up something that said that the snakes hate to get it on their skin(I think). It came in what looked like a one litre spray bottle. For those who share my own little phobia for the very large spiders, I have seen spider repellant in a brico as well.

Anne

[Dick Smith]

Boy scouts are/were told to lay a length of rope around their tent at night to keep snakes out - apparently they don't like to crawl over it. Probably a myth.