Jachère

[Christine Animal]

Isn't this a lovely idea, not far from us, for a field "en jachère"

 

                 [IMG]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/lavande/Jachre.jpg[/IMG]

[chris pp]

Ummm, not exactly Christine, many of the plants are not "useful", and they are usually being sown in conjunction with the chasse, not something that I think you are over impressed with.

Bit more research is called for, Chris

[Tresco]

Ah come on Chris [:D] 

It's lovely to look at, and anyway, how can you tell there's nothing 'useful' in there?  I want to do something similar. If I can have it pretty as well as 'useful' I'm up for that. [:)]

Any ideas as to how to achieve that would be welcome. Currently a field of weeds, on pretty solid clay.

 

[BJSLIV]

This gives a pretty good idea of why and some how its done, together with a study of the benefits.

http://www.pacte41.com/jacheres.htm

Its really a way of making something out of EU set aside land, and surely nobody thinks that they make the country any better do they? After all set aside is often subject to rigourous weedkilling , meaning its not a real haven for wild life.

 

[chris pp]

No, I'm serious, Tresco, it's a "green sop" and the hunters in conjunction with the farmers have taken advantage of the change in the way subsidies are now paid, sorry but it's crap.

As is clear, people fall for it, but it isn't what is really needed from the agriculteurs in the region (or any other region for that matter).

Looks good, yeah well, books and covers.

Chris

[Missy]

I know it's lovely to look at

but I also agree with Chris.

On some jachères ragwort grows.

Ragwort is poisonous to livestock and horses. It is a menace in fields grown for making hay which is vital fodder for animals in the winter as a supplement as there is not much else to graze on.

Once the flowers have passed, the seeds are taken away on the windbreeze, floating about and will settle wherever the wind blows possibly right in to your gardens....

If you want to do something similar, leave your field untouched, ungrazed, unmowed for a couple of years or more and gradually you should have something similar. What you get will depends of the soil, as some plants won't grow in some areas....

[Tresco]

I take the point about the 'green sop' and the subsidies.

I wasn't going on the politics of it - I never even clicked the link; I just thought it looked pretty. 

I'm not a farmer!  I am a girl type critter, and yes, I fell for the pretty flowers[:D][:$]

Sorry to be all me, me, me about it, but does this mean flowers are 'out'?

 

[Meg]

We have some near us, i was thinking how beautiful they are. 

I didn't realise there was another side to the story!

Girls and flowers again!!

Louise

[Christine Animal]

Tresco, if you look on BJSLIV's link above, there is a list of the flowers used.  On my photo I think there are a lot of cosmos.

                                                       

Whatever the reasons, it does look pretty Chris   [Www]

 

[chris pp]

OK, it looks pretty, but I'll try and unpick it in a little more detail, leaving aside the fact that it's for killing birds and money grabbing.

I'll stick to this region, Poitou-Charentes. The agriculture in this region is responsible for the destruction of a minimum of 60 different species of "plants of cultivation", these are the plants that used to grow as a result of traditional methods of cultivation, to a greater or lesser extent relying on the soil being disturbed periodically, these, except the most common and robust, have been all but wiped out with herbicides and new methods of seed production.

Another result of the farming practises is at best the decline, and in some instances the near extinction, of certain species of ground nesting birds, either by chopping them up (nests and chicks) with harvesting machinery, or again the removal of the types of crop or plant species that these birds require.

If something is going to be done with land that is now apparently "spare", it should be done with REAL environmental or wildlife objectives in mind, not sowing a whole load of plant seeds which are more suitable to someones front garden. Species are declining and being wiped out at an alarming rate, take my word for it, this is not what we need in France or anywhere else. It really does get me more than a little cheesed of with these "look good" scams that completely divert the general publics view of what is really happening.

Next year I'm thinking of opening up my "garden" for people to see what can be done, not necessarily in their garden, but in the wider context of the countryside.

Chris x

 

[Christine Animal]

Please tell us what you do in your garden Chris.  Then we can try too.  Do you have any photos?

 

[chris pp]

"My garden" is a project for my web site, maybe in the winter, Christine, but it's not really a garden as such.

This little snipette from the site link above (and there are many web sites like that one for different regions) says it all: De préférence le long des voies de communication : Nationales 10 et 157, près de la ligne T.G.V. Paris-Vendôme, mais aussi sur les hauteurs du relief afin d'être vues par un maximum de personnes et embellir un peu plus l'environnement. In other words, it's to be seen, you know, isn't it wonderful what's being done by the farmers and hunters in France for wildlife,  YUK, it's sick.

Chris

 

[Dick Smith]

But Chris, is it pretty?

[chris pp]

"But Chris, is it pretty?"    Yes, very pretty, pretty sneaky.

Now then, Dick, you have three choices, you can have a thrashing in front of the entire school at assembly tomorrow morning, you can hand weed the school playing field with only bread and water until it's finished, or you can accept voluntary expulsion.

Or, I suppose you should be given a fourth choice, to promise to change your ways.

Chris

 

[Dick Smith]

I'll take the thrashing...

[Tresco]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]I'll take the thrashing...
[/quote]

Bagsy me to supervise.

[Tresco]

[quote user="chris pp"]

 The agriculture in this region is responsible for the destruction of a minimum of 60 different species of "plants of cultivation", these are the plants that used to grow as a result of traditional methods of cultivation, to a greater or lesser extent relying on the soil being disturbed periodically, these, except the most common and robust, have been all but wiped out with herbicides and new methods of seed production.[/quote]

I hope no-one objects to me bringing this topic back up again.

I'm talking about an area about 300m2 that can't have trees/hedges planted due to fosse pipes etc. 

If I knew what the endangered plants were, I'd plant them. Anyone want to suggest anything?

In Latin please [:)]

 

[chris pp]

Interesting that you brought this topic back up, Tresco, I'm just putting some meat on the bones for an article and a page on my web site, but that's besides the point, please tell me more about this bit of land in a bit more detail and then if I can help I'll do the Latin bit for you, but need to know more.

Chris

 

[Tresco]

Thanks Chris.

At the moment it's a very rough - though essentially flat - bit of land in full sun. It's very heavy clay and hasn't been cultivated for several years. At present it supports a host of golden...Dandelions, [:)] Teasels, Thistles  Plantain and Bindweed (of course).

It's a bone shaking experience to mow it, and of course every time we do we create more 'weeds'. We have about an acre in total, so it's a small area really, but could be extended to say 700m2

I'm happy to have Teasels and Thistles, but I get the impression my neighbours aren't, and I don't want to fall out with them. Gdo knows why they are bothered, with the amount of chemicals they squirt around three times a year[:(]

 

 

 

 

 

[chris pp]

Blimey Tresco, Dandelions,Teasels, Thistles  Plantain and Bindweed. Sounds like you've got it started already.[:D]

Thistles are one of my favourite plants, I know they are not endangered but it isn't from lack of trying by most people. Now I don't know this as a scientific fact, but I would think that thistles support more species either directly or indirectly than any other plant, it's well nigh on impossible to find a thistle that hasn't got creatures on it. Of course this is a bit of a dilemma for you because of your neighbours who don't understand these things, incidentally is it creeping thistle, Cirsium arvense? It's the only one that's invasive, all the others are easy to deal with, even the farmers with all their sprays can't keep creeping thistle down.

If it was me, I'd simply contain that area, mow round it and take it down to the ground with a brush cutter in November and April and see what else develops, although it would be a shame to take the teasels down, goldfinches love them in winter, the chances are that other plants will move in. If you did do this, it would be good to rake of the cut growth and make a heap of it somewhere in the same area, as in many ways it would be good to keep the ground "poor".

I've a feeling this isn't quite what you wanted to hear, I wish you were a bit closer, I'd pop in (if invited).

Now come back with your ideas, Chris x

[Jonzjob]

[quote user="missyesbut"]I know it's lovely to look at but I also agree with Chris. On some jachères ragwort grows. Ragwort is poisonous to livestock and horses. It is a menace in fields grown for making hay which is vital fodder for animals in the winter as a supplement as there is not much else to graze on. Once the flowers have passed, the seeds are taken away on the windbreeze, floating about and will settle wherever the wind blows possibly right in to your gardens.... If you want to do something similar, leave your field untouched, ungrazed, unmowed for a couple of years or more and gradually you should have something similar. What you get will depends of the soil, as some plants won't grow in some areas....[/quote]

Hi Missy, as you say it's set aside. It should not be mown for animals.

Ragwort is a killer. I used to go, with my OH, up onto 1200 acres of common land near Stroud in the spring. We were armed with gloves to pull ragwort so the 500 or so head of cattle and the 3 dozen or so ponies that lived up there would not confuse the dead ragwort for fodder. It was burned.

Back to set aside and ragwort on it. It is the home for about a couple of dozen types of insects. Chris will know which ones I'm sure. If the ragwort is wiped out then so are those insects and some of those are lovely moths, but they are all importaint. If that set aside is by mowing fields it is a relatively small job to get rid of the ragwort in the mowing crop before it gets established.

If you want to get rid of a real animal killer then the pine processionary catipallers are a better target. They tend to kill you pet dog! They will give you a very bad time too if you handle them...  But that's a different story and a long one...

As a matter of interset, if you ever do go pulling ragwort wear gloves. It is toxic through the skin. With gloves, no problem.

 

[Meg]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]

If you want to get rid of a real animal killer then the pine processionary catipallers are a better target. They tend to kill you pet dog! They will give you a very bad time too if you handle them...  But that's a different story and a long one...

[/quote]

Urgh ......they sound a bit mean. I'd never heard of them before. I guess i won't see them round this way.

Sorry about the dog John [:(]

 pine processionary caterpillar

Louise

[Jonzjob]

Hi Louise, for once I'm being serious, but don't worry it doesn't happen often.

The pine procesionarys are nasty little beasts. Here's another site to look at  http://web.cortland.edu/fitzgerald/PineProcessionary.html . We have not had any problems with them as far as our dog is concerned, but we did have a string of them on our terrace the spring before last. Just outside the kitchen door. There are loads of web sites about them and they make for worrying reading some of them.

Rather than hi-jack this thread anymore I will start another for them.

[Meg]

Oh, glad it wasn't your dog, still a worrying topic though.

Ok back to this topic..........i found this article interseting Tresco.

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3053354.stm

Louise

[chris pp]

It's exactly the same in France, Louise, if not worse and this is the crux of the issue, it's not only that some plants have been pushed to the edge and become rare, it's the everyday more common wild plants, although they are still around and visible their numbers have been substantially reduced and continue to be so with a corresponding reduction in other species. I'll try and copy a list to the forum later (Latin for Tresco).

Chris