Pads Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Am I right in thinking OF and From are the same ? De or d' for a vowel and there's no fem, masc or plural ? If im saying ANY (de la ) fem, how do you tell the difference from De la (from /for)(the ) ??[blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 PadsOnly the context will tell you. For example, if you say "le train de Paris", that could be just as confusing as saying "the Paris train" as it could be "of" or "from"!Someone whose French is better than mine, please come to my rescue, and Pads', as I'm not sure I can explain this very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Ah, well that depends, Pads! If you were saying "I have lots of them" It would be "j'en ai beaucoup" for instance - then you're getting into en territory which is a nightmare. Don't want to scare you or anything.... And there are plurals. I come from the Alps "je viens des Alpes". There are loads more. Bet you're glad you asked.[:-))]This is when you need a real virtual French person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Sorry, Pads, will try again. The masculine is "du". Someone else will come and put us both right soon. It's one of those little but essential words and I can't say that I have paid it much attention so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Thinking a little more about this, Pads it's occurred to me I say, "Je suis AU Pays de Galle" when I want to say I come from Wales because Wales is a "masculine" country. Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pads Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 Isnt du the masc of any/some ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pads Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 Hang on im more confused now au is masc for à+ theyour not pulling my leg are you sweet 17 [:)] or do they just make it up as they go along[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 What you are saying Sweets is that you are in Wales, not from Wales! "Tu es du Pays de Galles!" Better to say "Je suis Galloise" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Sorry Pads & CoopsGot a bit confused as I am having battery trouble and I am worried I won't manage to post. I mean, "Je suis du Pays de Galle"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 [quote user="Pads"]Isnt du the masc of any/some ?[/quote]du = de + le just as des = de + les and its meaning varies but basically de means ofI have a lot of tomatos J'ai beaucoup de tomates. But : I have some cheese : j'ai du fromageIn fact du doesn't mean any or some it means of because the French say "I have of the cheese!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pads Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 Ok im crying now ............ my bottom lip is out I thought du was masc of: Any Some? is there a fem masc & pl of : of /from, I thought it was de or d'for vowels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pads Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 so its not, Any/some : de la (fem) du (masc) des (pl) de'l (vowel) [:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 The point is Pads that you get into extremely deep water if you translate these words direct. As said above du is simply a contraction of de le - I come from Le Mans (or more correctly I am coming from Le Mans) - je viens du Mans - quite clearly doesn't mean I come any/some Mans!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 [quote user="Pads"]so its not, Any/some : de la (fem) du (masc) des (pl) de'l (vowel) [:-))] [/quote] Well, yes and no - we would say I have some...whatever; where the French say "j'ai du../de la/des etc" but the translation misleads you. In fact it is much better if you think of the French construction as completely different I have of the... as said above! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pads Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 Pads exits left ,stamping feet muttering "I give up im moving to Zimbabwe it must be easier to learn than bruddy french"[:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Prepositions are a nightmare in any language!Here you go "De"la provenance : arriver de Francele point de depart : de la maisonl'emplacement : loin deintroduit le complement de beaucoup de verbes : parler deintroduit le complement d'un adjectif : content de as in "ils sont content de leur nouvel appartementpour etablir un lien entre deux noms et exprimer... la possession - la veste de ma soeurla categorie une table de cuisine There's more, but that should get you going for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pads Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 Thanks coops....................wheres my dummy? its not in my pram !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 You can also think of things in terms of non specific quantities as being "of the"For example if you offered me a cup of tea you might say do you want milk, but how much? A bottle, a gallon, or some milk? So in French it is voulez-vous du lait? Je voudrais du pain, du fromage etc.But if for instance you were giving someone the choice of a loaf of bread or a pint of milk you could say "soit le pain, soit le lait""soit" being both either and or!Someone please correct me if I am wrong as I am still learning like most of us and like to read these threads to learn,as much as to help.I have just been phoning round various Brico-Depots to see if they have some "fin de series" windows in stock. I had to use my dictionary to double check the gender of rayon and menuiserie so I knew whether to say "de la" or "du"It went something like "Bonsoir Madame, puis-je parler avec quelq'un du rayon de la menuiserie?"I got put through and my question was answered but it would be nice to know whether I made the grammatically correct enquiry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Just to worry you even more, my OH has looked in the French grammar text book that is used in his French class and found 18 pages that refer to different uses of de. Good luck!!Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pads Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 Oh well in that case im going to just use de in every sentance , should hit it right in one out of 3 for my test next week[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemonimo Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I'm no expert J.R. but I would have said "puis-je (pourrais-je) parler avec quelq'un au rayon menuiserie". But I can't explain why! Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 JenIt does sound more realistic to me but again I cannot explain why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 "puis-je (pourrais-je) parler avec quelq'un au rayon menuiserie" = could I speak with ... at the carpentry section?"puis-je (pourrais-je) parler avec quelq'un du rayon menuiserie" = could I speak with ... from the carpentry section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Thank you both.I guess I was trying to say "speak to someone from the rayon of menuiserie, I am sure that in normal conversation I would not have used both prepositions but of course I had time to rehearse (wrongly)[:)]I learn something every time I read this section, no matter how basic the initial enquiry, I would like to thank Pads for kickstarting this section and hope that she will continue.I had always thought I was using the contraction "pweedge" for "puis-je", "pourrais je" makes much more sense but without these discussions I may never have known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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