néanmoins: can someone please

[mint]

make a sentence using this word to demonstrate its use?

Does it mean the same as "sinon" and are the 2 words interchangeable?

[Clair]

Hollande avait promis de résoudre la crise de l'emploi, néanmoins rien n'a changé!

Je crains les hauteurs, néanmoins je vais grimper sur le toit pour réparer l'antenne de télé!

néanmoins = nevertheless / yet

not interchangeable with sinon.

sinon = otherwise / failing this / except (depends on the context)

[Chancer]

I use it to express "nonetheless" which perhaps should be "nevertheless".

[mint]

[quote user="Clair"]

Je crains les hauteurs, néanmoins je vais grimper sur le toit pour réparer l'antenne de télé!



[/quote]

but you told me specifically not to attempt to do it myself?[8-)]

[Clair]

[quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="Clair"]Je crains les hauteurs, néanmoins je vais grimper sur le toit pour réparer l'antenne de télé![/quote]but you told me specifically not to attempt to do it myself?[8-)][/quote]

And you remembered! Well done! [:D][kiss]

[Rabbie]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Clair"]

Je crains les hauteurs, néanmoins je vais grimper sur le toit pour réparer l'antenne de télé!



[/quote]

but you told me specifically not to attempt to do it myself?[8-)]

[/quote]Remember what happened to Rod Hull( of emu fame) when he ignored this advice

[Loiseau]

Il s'en est cru capable, néamnoins il a trouvé la mort. :-(

Angela

[Frecossais]

Thank you Clair for a clear explanation. Much appreciated.

[Clair]

[quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="Clair"]Je

crains les hauteurs, néanmoins je vais grimper sur le toit pour réparer

l'antenne de télé![/quote]but you told me specifically not to attempt to

do it myself?[8-)][/quote]Remember what happened to Rod Hull( of emu

fame) when he ignored this advice[/quote]

I had forgotten about him... I wonder what happened to Emu... [8-)]

[quote user="Loiseau"]Il s'en est cru capable, néamnoins il a trouvé la mort. :-(

Angela[/quote]

Oooooh! Good topical use of today's word of the day, Angela! [:D]

And Frecossais, you're welcome! [:)]

[Loiseau]

I expect that the bird was so "ému" that he flew away off the roof, never to be seen again... ;-)

[mint]

When then, is it like "quand même"?

[woolybanana]

http://french.about.com/od/vocabulary/g/neanmoins.htm

[woolybanana]

This example seems to answer your outstanding query, Sweets, though it is getting subtle here and I don't do subtle. However, I feel that quand meme would fit, though in a spoken context? Other brains may well disagree.

En marge de cette opinion doctrinale, il demeure néanmoins qu’une distinction importante existe entre la mise en œuvre de la norme ISO 26000 par les organisations et la possibilité pour les justiciables de défendre leurs droits en justice lorsqu’ils en subissent de façon préjudiciable les effets.

[Loiseau]

If you think of néanmoins meaning 'nevertheless"

and quand mëme meaning "even so"

you can see that there's a very subtle difference.

Actually, I'd say "néanmoins" is a bit more literary, in fact I don't think you'd often hear it in SPOKEN French. People would probably use "quand mëme" when speaking.

Angela

[Chancer]

Ooops [:$]

Nobody told me that!

I must sound as odd as the French when they say "moreover" instead of also when speaking English[:(]

[louloulaloopski]

[quote user="Chancer"]

Ooops [:$]

Nobody told me that!

I must sound as odd as the French when they say "moreover" instead of also when speaking English[:(]

[/quote]

Rarely use néanmoins as an adverb, if ever, but frequently use it as a conjunction as it has a nice distinctive ring which draws more attention and emphasis than a feeble quand meme.[:D]

[Chancer]

My apalling English education holds me back while learning French Loulou, we didnt learn any rules of grammar (English)  and in my first French class the teacher thought we were playing up when we asked what a verb was.

Even now I can only get my head around verb and noun, the rest is just another foreign language to me.

So to help me could you please give a couple of examples of where you use neanmoins (conjunction) and where I should not (adverb).

You can try explaining what a conjunction and an adverb is, who knows it may even stick or sink in this time, lord knows it must do one day. I have some vague memory that an adverb is a noun that modifies a verb but even if thats right it still  means nothing to me.

[louloulaloopski]

Just seen a disgraceful incident in Cahors on 20minutes site.

http://www.20minutes.fr/ledirect/1066339/cahors-ane-pere-noel-malmene-blesse

Puzzled by éméché so had to check it out.

http://www.languefrancaise.net/bob/detail.php?id=2954

Néanmoins, un petit vade mecum pour les fetes, quand meme.

However, a small memo for the festivities, as well.

http://www.languefrancaise.net/bob/syno.php?id=267&synonyme=ivre

Chin! Chin! Bottoms up!

[idun]

Chancer my only recollection from junior school was that a verb was 'a doing word'. An adjective was 'a describing word' and a noun was 'a name'. Then they tried to teach us adverbs and petite Idun was lost without trace. And I'm still unsure as to what they are.......no one try and explain.....no, no, no.

I would, if I had had the misfortune to have been educated in France.... have ended up in a special school in France for the mentally retarded, because I just do not in any way understand grammar. I would see with my childrens homework, and they would be obliged to do an autopsy on every last word, decortique the lot........... and just looking at it, never mind trying to understand, just turns my not too bright brain turns to polenta. In France, the teachers would have considered that I was either taking the michael, or that I was truly very very thick, but I could not have got far.

I said 'autopsy', because I always wondered 'why' a language had to be made so complicated, and why children have to be so taught, picking every last bone down to the moelle, to be able to get to grips with it. Surely there must be les petits francais, who are dumb like me and don't manage, even though, they have other talents. I do realise some people like doing this with any language, but some of us can't, not won't, can't.

I discovered maths and was good at maths.

So Chancer, you have my admiration, you obviously understand so much of this stuff than I ever will and your progress is quite obvious, to me at least. So pat yourself on the back and I bet that you don't sound odd.

[Chancer]

Well they didnt teach us anything at all, they didnt even correct our spelling after junior school, I was very good at spelling, not so now with brain decay and who knows if we had actually been taught any English instead of being encouraged to express ourselves no matter how poorly by dope smoking teachers (in the classroom I should add) it could have been one of my strong subjects.

It was only when I was learning French at adult education that I dared to ask and got an answer to "what is a verb?" the answer stuck, an action word in English that is preceded by "to".

I didnt know what a noun was until 2005 when I realised that it meant both noun and name in French and then got my head around a noun being an object that we name, probably far from the correct school definition but it sticks in my head neanmoins!

I honestly dont think I know what any of the other grammatical terms are in English, I cant even list them, adverb, pronoun, thats about it, havnt got a clue what they are though. Yet I know the names of and can use 13 tenses (including compound tenses) in French but would not have a clue what they are called in English.

What really galls me is that I communicate fairly well both spoken and written in English and French, but for my total ignorance of the structure and the technical terms of a language, rules of grammar etc I reckon I could make a good fist of teaching English to the French, as it is I cannot even express what knowledge it is that I am lacking.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="idun"]

Chancer my only recollection from junior school was that a verb was 'a doing word'. An adjective was 'a describing word' and a noun was 'a name'. Then they tried to teach us adverbs and petite Idun was lost without trace. And I'm still unsure as to what they are.......no one try and explain.....no, no, no.

[/quote]Can't resist a challenge.  Most english adverbs end in ly. French ones end in ment. 

[mint]

Also, the very word "ad-verb" tells you that it adds to or "modify", in grammar terms, a verb (and you do know what a verb is, so that makes it easier).

So a couple of examples to get you going:

He runs quickly.  The verb in the sentence is "runs", as idun says, a "doing word":  what does he do?  He runs.

The adverb is "quickly":  it tells you the manner  in which he runs:  how does he run?  He runs quickly.

So, you can see that the adverb adds to or tells you a little more about the verb.

He eats greedily.

She drinks thirstily.

Lots more examples.  Pity you don't live nearer to me or I could give you some English grammar lessons but, of course, NOT French ones, LOL!

[Chancer]

Thank you so much for that Sweet, it will stick if I get to use the knowledge once or twice, perhaps thats the problem.

Yes I think you could teach me a lot, my ex French teacher now a good friend has taught me more about the English language than I have ever forgotten!

She will phone me for technical terms or to say "does this sound right?" and when I tell her I would say it in such and such a way she corrects me"No Chancer! when an adverb is followed by a qualified adjective you..........." [:)] I have made that bit up as I never understand what it is that she is actually telling me but each time I learn how poor my english is compared to hers.

[mint]

Of course, Chance, that is only ONE type of adverb and I gave it as an example of the easiest to remember type.

There are other ones that modify adjectives, another adverbs, phrases and clauses but it's better to start somewhere than not at all and it's better to walk before running; quickly (adverb) or otherwise!

[Frecossais]

Chancer, an adverb is a word that describes an action, (verb) as in "I walked slowly home" - the adverb is "slowly" because it describes the way I

 walked (verb).

Many words are recognisable as adverbs because they end in "ly", like strangely, softly, urgently etc. In French some adverbs are recognisable beacuse they end in "ment" such as  lentement, recemment, gentillement.

Bien is an adverb: In "Il va bien", bien is an adverb that describes the verb va in that sentence. In " Vous dansez bien", the adverb bien describes the action danse.

A conjunction is a word that joins two parts of a sentence: "I went to the door and looked through the letter-box." The conjunction is "and" because it joins the two actions in one sentence.

Conjunctions are joining words such as  and, but because, then, nevertheless, (neanmoins), however, although.

I hope this helps a bit, but I apologise if I have only confused you. Maybe others have their own little tricks for remembering what part of speech does what. I'd be interested in hearing them.