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Security / Damage Deposits


Owens88

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Most of the big banks in the UK have 'international' associates offshore which offer a variety of accounts (sterling, euro and dollar) which are available to non-UK residents.  The savings accounts usually pay you but the current accounts charge a fee.  For example, Lloyds TSB offshore have a fairly basic sterling account (cheque book and debit card included) for £7.50 per month (first three months free) and you can have a euro account alongside for no extra fee. More info on http://www.lloydstsb-offshore.com/international/internationalaccount

You may be able to have internet access to the account which would be useful - and if the Lloyds version doesn't suit then it would be worth looking at what the other banks offer.

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[quote user="Jacqui Too "]

[quote user="Callie"]

Banks certainly used to allow non-residents to open an external account (I worked for one donkeys years ago as a temp!).  If my parents can have a bank account with Cred Ag in France (they live in the UK) I find it hard to believe that no bank will allow you to open an account in the UK - we are supposed to be "Europe", after all.  As a last resort, have you no relations or friends who would let you use their address ?

[/quote]

Do your parents have an address in France?

I think that you still need to have an address in France to be able to open a bank account there! we certainly needed to produce our French address when we opened our account for non-residents.

BAF has no address whether home or holiday home to provide him with the necessary proof needed to open an account in the UK[/quote]

No, my parents do not have an address in Franced.  They have had the account for some years - they may have done it as an arrangement through the Cred Ag in London.

BaF :  I have been asking around, and on other forums, abnd as yet, no-one has been able to come up with anything concrete to help you.  Sorry, I have tried ![:(]

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By the way how do most people who's clients are British receive the deposit and balance?

PayPal, or via a sterling account opened with HSBC in Jersey (with no UK address).

If you target the British market it makes sense to have the facility to accept sterling cheques.

The only other viable alternative is cash in euros, in which case you must make it clear that the property will be inspected before the deposit is returned.

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[quote user="Jo Taylor"]The only other viable alternative is cash in euros, in which case you must make it clear that the property will be inspected before the deposit is returned.[/quote]

Unfortunately not very convenient if there are guests who want to leave at 6am to catch a ferry !  A thorough check out will take longer than 5 minutes.  Mind you, a cash deposit would stop people leaving in a hurry ! !

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[quote user="Callie"]Unfortunately not very convenient if there are guests who want to leave at 6am to catch a ferry ![/quote]

Another reason to have the means to refund the deposit by sterling cheque, or PayPal or similar.

If you don't have other measures in place, then it's a downside of letting. I have done it; I go back to bed afterwards (or do it last thing the night before: "Let me know when you're ready for me to come in and have a check round").

[quote user="Callie"]A thorough check out will take longer than 5 minutes.[/quote]

I know; I have been doing it for rather a long time.  [:)]

 

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Callie and Jo,

Out of curiosity, could you please describe how you do your check-out?

Do you ask one of the guests to accompany you? or do they, as mine sometimes do, all follow you around?

Do you ask that the beds should be stripped?

Do you check the mattresses? I once found a stained mattress after departure, as the guests had decided to do without the hygienic measure of a mattress protector...

Any tip welcome [:)]

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Actually, I rarely bother. I usually find some reason to wander into the kitchen - if that's clean and tidy the rest is normally OK. I ask if anything's broken / been broken / not working. If I do check, I just scuttle off by myself (most guests are prepared for this, many having booked through an agency who state that an inspection will be carried out). If I think there might be 'issues' with the bedding, I whisk the covers back - "Just checking you've not left any little socks down the side - I'm always finding those!"

 

(I did find a dirty grey full-length corset once. In August [+o(]. Didn't contact them to send it back...)

 

I don't mind if the beds are stripped or not, it's a job that takes only a few seconds (and quicker to check if still on the beds.) I have mattress protectors, but also another cover over them under the bottom sheet, so it would be a bother for them to undo the whole lot just to remove the protectors.

 

I do tend to assess whether they might be the type to leave a mess (judgemental, I know, but you can usually tell if people are housetrained![:)]) - in the last three weeks, I've had one 60-ish couple with their similarly-aged female friend - foresaw no probs, they left it immaculate. Ditto the couple last week, 50-ish - she mentioned during a conversation that she works as a part-time cleaner in addition to her other job. Left immaculate again, plus a box of chocs [:D]. This week I have two younger couples with two very small children - so I will check round, children can be sticky!

 

Having said that I've very, very, rarely had a problem, but I am on-site and usually have a chat with guests during the week. I do have a 'Before you leave' checklist - not draconian, mostly reminders. Apart from: "Please ensure that the property is cleaned before leaving (as stated in your contract), paying particular attention to the bath, lavatory, basin, sink and cooker", most of it is things such as:

~ Check that you’ve not left a CD or cassette in the player.
~ Check behind doors and on pegs for coats and jackets.
~ Check the washing line, washing machine and garden for clothes and toys.

Everyone works out their own way of doing things, and it also depends on the set-up - whether on-site or not, using an agency, using a caretaker, etc.

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Im pretty similar. I normally have a feel for the guests habits from conversing through the week, general appearances, how clean their car is etc.

On the day of departure, they have to be out by 11am. Im normally a bit flexible with this as changeover doesnt take long. I have a quick scan through the kitchen, checking pots and frying pans are present and clean and a quick look in the cupboard and cutlery drawer. I dont sit and count spoons or anything, but a quick look reveals if the quantities are about right. A quick look in the bathroom then tour all the rooms, checking nothing is obviously broken or missing. Im done in less than 2 minutes. The beds Im not too fussed about.... I use disposable matress protectors which get binned after each stay. 99% of guests bring their own sheets etc.

My guests are mostly French. I take a 100€ security deposit cheque at the start of the week, which I dont cash. I just give the cheque back to them at the end of the week. If I were to make a deduction, I would write them a cheque for whatever they are due, then bank their cheque. So far I have never had to make a deduction.

 

Im a trusting person and believe that if I treat people well, they will do the same to me. Never had any bad guests...yeah the odd thing gets broken, but the loss of a few glasses and plates through the year is a tiny price to pay imo.

I know of other people who religously go through the full inventory to check everything is accounted for...that just makes them look like a tight-wad to me. sure, no-one likes to loose stuff, but in the hospitality business occasional losses are inevitable, and I honestly couldnt bring myself to deduct a few euros from someoneses deposit due to a missing teatowel or broken wineglass after they have paid me several hundred euros to stay for a week. This stuff mostly all comes from Ikea and costs pennies to replace, so I dont see it as a big deal.

 

I have had allsorts here from elderly couples, families with young kids to a large group of 20-somethings having a lads week away fishing and partying. (these guys have been back a few times and despite partying hard, the place is 101% spotless at the end their stay!) Everyone who has broken something has offered to pay to replace it, which I have always refused.

Never had any major problems with any large breakages or loss. If for example the washing machine stopped working...what do people do in this case? how can you decide if it has been broken by your guests or has simply succumbed to wear and tear? I honestly dont know what I would do in these cases. Unless it very obviously been overloaded or misused, I doubt I could take someones security for an appliance that may have packed up at any time and whos demise may very well hve had nothing to do with the last person to switch it on.

May Im too soft, or too trusting. dunno, but the way I do things works for me - Im happy and the guests are happy and thats what matters.

 

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Like Jo, we live on site and usually have a word with them during their stay.  We have a book with information, tips, where to go, etc.  Also a short list of "dos and don'ts", which includes telling us immediately if there is a problem or something is broken.

We take a security deposit of £100 per week of holiday 8 weeks in advance, which we bank.  When our guests have gone, we go through the gite from top to bottom cleaning and checking.  (I check the sheets and mattresses as I go.  I love it when guests strip the beds, but it's rare !)  If all is in order, we refund the deposit in full within a couple of days.  We wouldn't make our guests hang around while we went through a list - they want to get off and it spoils the saying goodbye bit !

Perhaps the most important thing is to have very clear clauses in the terms and conditions.  We recommend that our guests are insured and in the event of a breakage or damage (not plates or glasses!), we will send them a photograph and statement to present to their insurance company.   I do agree, Dave, if the washing machine packed up, it would be difficult to say whose fault it was.  The security deposit is more for things like beds, sunbeds, microwave tray,

In 20 years of gite letting we have never had to retain any part of the security deposit.  We have come close once when the gite was left in a pretty disgusting state and the oven was, well, [+o(]

If we had French guests, we would do the same but in euros. 

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I take all payments from the UK & rest of world by credit card using Payboxmail, much cheaper than Paypal (,45% commission as opposed to 4,9%), but you don't have the facility to take a deposit and return it without charge. But then I stopped taking deposits a few years ago as I live on site and have never had any real problems. As Dave21478 pointed out, how do you prove the damage was done by the departing guests, how do you know it wasn't wear and tear etc. Inspecting before guests leave just seems a complete waste of time as you are unlikely to find anything on a quick look round, it isn't until you do a thorough clean and tidy that missing or damaged items become apparent.

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[quote user="nimportequoi"]I take all payments from the UK & rest of world by credit card using Payboxmail,[/quote]

Can you explain more fully please?

looking at this website, I see a one-off set-up fee, a monthly fee, a transaction fee and a fee per 100 emails sent

How does Paybox mail work practically?

I offer payment via moneybookers and find that quite cheap.

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You need contrat vente à distance - you set it up with your bank and negotiate your charges with them. You pay a set up fee (mine was 85€, the normal is 160€ish?) and a monthly fee (I pay 15€, the normal is 23,50€) to Payboxmail, I paid less than the standard as my bank CA negotiated a contract with them. As I don't send anywhere near 100 emails a month, I never have to pay that fee. I don't pay anything else to Payboxmail, just the ,45% + 0,15€ per transaction to my bank for all European payments (incl.UK) and 1% for rest of world. Overall it works out many times cheaper for me than Paypal would, but if I guess it depends on the level of your business. I like it because I send a email with a link to the secure payment page, I don't have to take credit card details over the phone and do the transaction myself. I thought customers would prefer that.

I just got fed up with Paypal being so expensive to use and this is a much better and cheaper alternative for me.

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I've had a look at Moneybookers and it seems a better option than Paypal. It is interesting to compare with Paybox - I have the set up and monthly charges, but with Paybox the money goes directly into my account, with Moneybrookers you pay 1,80€ to put the money in your account. I pay 0,45% + 15c per credit card transaction, with Moneybookers it is 1,9%.

My customers don't need to set up an account, not sure it this is the case with Moneybookers and paying by credit card is free for my customers. I just send out an email with the secure payment link and that is it. You don't need a VAD with Moneybookers, you do with Paybox. Swings and roundabouts as usual!

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Take the damage deposit with the final payment and return it either by cheque or bank payment one week after the guests have departed, that way you get to check if anything has been damaged and hidden. If you have changeovers back to back you cannot check every last thing before guests leave. 

We had more than one incident where damage was caused and we were not informed, the guests knew they had caused it as when we asked them they confessed. Had we given them back their deposit at the time of departure we would have been several hundred Euros out of pocket.

If you take a cheque and do not bank it as soon as you get it, the chances are the cheque will have been stopped by the time you have noticed any damage.  

Victor

   

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Hello

Like Benjamin I've stayed in a number of French owned properties over the years and have always recieved my cheque back at the end of the week or in the post a few days after so maybe it is standard practice not to bank the cheque.

Panda

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Panda, it's nice to have trusting gite owners.  But it only takes one bad experience to shatter that trust.  If you don't bank the deposit, you might as well not bother to take one.  If there is a damage problem during the holiday, how does the owner of the property get compensated?  Yes, most of us decent folk would pay up, but there are others who won't.  We have never retained any part of the deposit, in spite of breakages.  We have now decided that we WILL retain a part of the deposit next time one of the sunbeds, chairs, garden tables or similar are broken.  Accidents (and carelessness) will happen, but that is why we suggest our guests are insured ! !  They can then claim back their breakage costs ! !

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That's fine but my experience is largely with large companies, appartments in ski resorts etc. so I'm thinking it's not a choice but perhaps 'the way it's done'.  If they could bank my money surely they would or perhaps it's to much hassle to pay the money back.  I'm not sure but I guess I'm saying I can understand someone asking why you've banked a damage deposit when it so often isn't done over here.

 

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We had a discussion with a Belgian guest a couple of years ago or so, which is why I decided to ask for cash on arrival.

She had handed over a cheque on arrival, which I had banked.

I handed her a cheque on departure and she was absolutely flabbergasted that I had actually banked her cheque.

Belgian Guest  - "What if we hadn't had enough money in the account?"

Me - "Why would you write a cheque for which you do not have the funds?"

BG - "Because it's never actually banked, it's always given back to us."

Me - "What is there is some damage to the property?"

BG - "We would write you a cheque for the right amount."

Me - "I have done that before and found that the cheque had been stopped before my bank could present it." (no true, but I wanted them to see the other side)

BG - "We would never do that!"

It is taken for granted in France that handing over the cheque is in itself a guarantee of good faith.

If you accept a cheque as security deposit, you must make

it very clear to the paying guest that it will be banked if you do

intend to bank it.
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Everyone is talking about banking the cheque or it may be stopped, have insufficient funds etc, are they talking about Uk cheques in sterling?

As far as I know it is against the law to write a cheque in France without having sufficient funds and it is equally an offence to cancel a cheque, in fact I think it is very dificult to do for the previous reason.

So I reckon that the French and Belgians would be surprised to learn of their cheques being banked and maybe even a little suspicious.

Hopefully someone will confirm or correct me.

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Erm I have no idea not being either Belgian or French but it seemed to me if deposit cheques were never cashed and a French national expecting to get his cheque back after an inspection was told "it has been cashed, we will post a new one to you" they may consider it suspicious.

Out of the ordinary may have been a better choice of wording.

editted: sorry Clair I wasnt asking you to confirm if you would be suspicious but if holding an uncashed french cheque was as good as cash.

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As long as the guest, whatever his or her nationality, is aware that the security deposit cheque is going to be cashed, he or she can take the necessary steps to ensure there are sufficient funds in the account or even choose to stay somewhere else...

As posted earlier in the thread, I ask for a security deposit in cash and in Euros on arrival and I refund in cash on departure.

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Whichever way the deposit is taken, and whether a cheque is cashed or

not, is really up to the person letting their gite.  As Clair says, as

long as everything is made quite clear to start with, there should be

no misunderstanding.  It may seem excessive, but this is why we have

terms and conditions and when a guest pays their deposit, they sign a

booking form which states that they have read and understood the terms

and conditions.  It is impossible to make it more crystal clear than

that !

So there is no right way or wrong way, though I hadn't realised that different nationalities have different expectations.

We had a French couple for B&B for a couple of nights.  The first

morning, Madame came down to breakfast and asked "Do you change the

sheets and towels every day?"  I was struck dumb for a nano second

..... you can imagine all the sarcastic comments that ran through my

mind, but all I said was "No, Madame, this is bed and breakfast not a

four star hotel !" with a big smile ! !
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