Problems with Habitation Taxe

[Miss Viviane]

It's my first time posting on here and I'm just wondering if anyone has experienced this problem...

we have an appartement in Saint Brieuc purchased after selling the house we had which was also in Brittany.

For the second year running now we have been hit with an exorbitant bill of nearly 1,000 euros a year when the Taxe Fonciere is around 600 euros...I always was led to believe that the amounts were supposed to be similar?

When we had the cottage it was roughly 500 euros a year for both...and almost equal amounts for both...I'm just wondering if anyone could shed any light on why there is such a big gap between the 2 amounts now and why it's such an exorbitiant amount...I've tried looking at the paperwork but nothing seems to be explained on there and we've not been able to afford to pay it in one go so they charged us a fee on top?

Are these bully tactics normal or maybe just the area we are in?

We had to pay in instalments last year(in 3) and one of the letters we received when asking to pay in instalments was threatening!

This year we wanted to pay in three instalments but they've only allowed us two?

Are these unflexible tactics normal also?

I really do not wanna have to contact the people myself since I feel so angry that we've been treated like this!

We are now having to sell up as a result as we can't afford another year of this exorbitant amount which they demand in one go!

Its not in a particularly posh area or anything and as much as I used to love our holidays there I now no longer even want to go there although we have to in order to bring our belongings back...

It just makes me feel so angry and sick and having read another post on this forum it would seem that the french seem to love their taxes....!

As much as I have adored the holidays I had there I just feel that for how much we have spent in the local area when we've holidayed we're being ripped off and I just want to get out of there and fast.

Even if we lived there it would only be 40 euros deduction from the bill!

I don't even know exactly what we're paying so much for!

Is anyone out there having similar problems or have had any dealing with the local taxe office like this?

Any advice is very much appreciated but it makes me feel so angry I just want to send the keys to the taxe people and they can have the damn appartement!

It's a lovely city but I'm really torn right now as I've grown to love it in the time we've been there!

Once we sell up we're getting out altogether and just gonna go for short breaks in Paris instead....at least there they're not gonna ask taxes on top of what we spend there if we don't have an appartement/property there!

[pachapapa]

Varies a lot depending on locality. Calculated on the basis of an H 1 and the valeur locative.

Note the 15 year CGT changes to 30 years at midnite tuesday 31st january 2011.

[idun]

Sorry, I just think that this is how it is in France and for all local taxes in some areas used to be cheap, everything is changing now.I used to live in a village an paid in a month the amount many posters, including residents paid in a year. Trouble is, as this is a maison secondaire, you cannot even ask your neighbours as they will probably have some deductions on their taxe d'hab and you will pay the full amount. And both their bills will be a lot closer than yours are.

 

And it has to be said that towns are often dearer than villages too although the gap is closing.

Please do not forget that there is a choice in France, pay monthly by prelevement or  pay your bill when it comes, in one lump sum. You did have this choice last year to start your monthly payments, so I'm not surprised that they are telling you that you can only pay in two installments now, in fact they are probably being quite generous.

You ask what it is for. Well, all the usual things that councils have to pay for really; and the bins. Ofcourse, you won't be using lots of these things are you won't be there that much, but the infrastructure is always in place for everyone, whether they chose to be there or not.

 

If you sell up, you can go where you want and do as you please and you know what each holiday will cost.

[Patf]

I don't think there's any connection between TaxF and Tax de H.

They're based on different things, but often are similar. I THINK tax d'habitation is connected to the notional rental value of the property. Tax foncière, for local authority services.

As others have said, 1000€ isn't unusual, especially for a town which seems to be a pretty seaside resort.

[NormanH]

I don't think you have problems with your local taxes, just problems of attitude.

Apart from the fact that the taxe d'habitation is higher than the foncières, which I admit is a bit odd, the total of 1500€ is quite normal for a house in town.

You may have missed the deadline for paying, in which case you would have been given a 10% extra charge as a penalty, but that is well known and would be your fault.

As for instalments, you can pay both taxes by 10 equal payments over the year, starting from the second year. You may have missed the deadline for signing up for this. If you have, that is also your fault as the information is readily available.

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi/public/popup;jsessionid=FRCUDSKZW5Y1BQFIEIQCFEY?typePage=cpr02&sfid=503&espId=1&communaute=1&impot=TH&temNvlPopUp=true

You have neither been 'treated' badly, nor victimised.

Further information here

http://doc.impots.gouv.fr/aida2010/brochures_idl2010/ud_046.html

[Loiseau]

[quote user="idun"]

...You ask what it is for. Well, all the usual things ... and the bins. ...

[/quote]

I have a separate charge for my bins, but then I am in a village rather than a town.

Angela

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Patf"]I don't think there's any connection between TaxF and Tax de H.
They're based on different things, but often are similar. I THINK tax d'habitation is connected to the notional rental value of the property. Tax foncière, for local authority services.
As others have said, 1000€ isn't unusual, especially for a town which seems to be a pretty seaside resort.
[/quote]

I have noticed your THINK in capitals but I think no I am quite certain that both the taxe d'habitation and the taxe foncière depend on the valeur locative of the property.

[PaulT]

Well, what an attitude. You have already owned one residence in France so you should know what the rules are. Why on earth should the French make special arrangements for you? People living there permanently have to abide by the rules and will face a surcharge for paying late as do the rest of us with maison secondaires.

Bully tactics, oh dear, and you will not talk to the authorities because you are so angry, and you cannot afford to pay.

There is only one person who is at fault here and that is you. You have a maison secondaire - I dare say a lot of French people in rural areas are struggling to fund just one residence.

Personally, I think it is the French authorities who should feel angry having to deal with people who take on committments that they cannot meet. I do not imagine they will lose sleep if you do sell up, it will be less hassle for them in chasing payments.

Paul

[Sprogster]

From my experience, if you are in a new build, or relatively new apartment or house, the French property taxes can be a lot higher. Presumably, because they reflect in full the higher charges prevalent in recent years and a higher property valuation based on the recent purchase, whereas the authorities are more restricted in wacking up the taxes on older properties that have had the same family living in it for ages.

I moved to a bigger house in the same commune last year that was eight years older and was surprised that the property taxes were proportionately less. Also not surprisingly taxes tend to be higher in towns and cities, as compared to rural areas.

[Chancer]

When we had the cottage it was roughly 500 euros a year for both...and almost equal amounts for both...I'm just wondering if anyone could shed any light on why there is such a big gap between the 2 amounts now and why it's such an exorbitiant amount...I've tried looking at the paperwork but nothing seems to be explained on there and we've not been able to afford to pay it in one go so they charged us a fee on top?
Are these bully tactics normal or maybe just the area we are in?
We had to pay in instalments last year(in 3) and one of the letters we received when asking to pay in instalments was threatening!
This year we wanted to pay in three instalments but they've only allowed us two?
Are these unflexible tactics normal also?
I really do not wanna have to contact the people myself since I feel so angry that we've been treated like this!

Far from bullying tactics it would appear that they granted you a privelege that I have never ever heard of being accorded to anyone else, you found the letter threatening? Well I would imagine that it was spelling out the consequences if you did not keep to the payment plan, any other French citizen or immigrant would have already been paying fines and surcharges.

I am astonished that they have allowed you to pay again in  instalments this year, you should be singing from the rooftops not raling.

It is hard to comment on the comparisons between your old cottage and the new apartment as they would appear to be in different areas and I am guessing one rural the other in a town.

The base d'imposition for taxes fonçiere calculations is more skewed towards the size of the buildings and land area whereas taxe d'habitation is based on the valeur locatif and is further modified by the state of repair and confort offered, thus a cottage with land in a rural area may well have a ver low taxe d'habitation compared to fonçiere especially if any improvements, heating, bathroom, extensions etc have not been declared, most old places now have a far higher rating on the index de vetustité (cant recall the correct phrase) just through gradual modernising and tarting up, no-one is going to declare their new central heating for instance.

A new apartment  will probably have a low fonçiere value especially if it is a multi floor bâtiment but its valeur locatif will be sky high, they build these places where people want to live and work, being new it will have the top rating for confort and state of repair, it may have more bathrooms/sanitary ware and will certainly have central heating, note even a convector or oil filled radiator in one room only is classed as the whole property having central heating unless it is not fixed and is connected via a plug.

[EuroTrashII]

Instalments ... yes, but bear in mind you pay in arrears in any case, so in effect you are expecting to be allowed to delay paying your bill for the period Jan 2011-Dec 2011 until late 2012. As compared with UK council tax where your 2011 bill is long since paid off and you are starting paying for 2012. The theory is, you put the money aside over the year so you can pay when the bill arrives.

"Even if we lived there it would only be 40 euros deduction from the bill!"

I don't understand this bit - if you lived there your taxe d'hab would be worked out based on your income as per your annual tax form. It is a pretty complex calculation but I presume you've worked it very precisely to know that you would save 40 euros?

"Once we sell up we're getting out altogether and just gonna go for short breaks in Paris instead....at least there they're not gonna ask taxes on top of what we spend there if we don't have an appartement/property there!"

Bad news I'm afraid, they will tax you a daily tourist tax . . .