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DLA some movement


Llwyncelyn

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I only detect a slight movement with the DLA guys and this following substantial exchanges of views and indeed considerable legal arguments on my part.

Here I would not wish to be premature and indeed each and every case is different but I just sense a slight change in approach.

As soon as I know then I will of course by PM contact those who have contacted me in the past.

Meanwhile those of you who may have been affected by NICE decisions and  which essentially are based upon value for money and not necessarily for the benefit of the patient should consider that point and in some depth!

rdgs

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Hi Benjamin yes indeed one person's case my wife!  and I am awaiting a phone call from the DLA guys there is a letter on its way to me and they have promised to read it out to me over the phone when it is put together.  They have been considering my arguments since April

As I say early days and I do not predict I will win on this occasion but there are signs of a relaxation of policy.

 

regards

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi folks

Right, I spoke to the DLA Office this afternoon.  The first person I spoke to said 'don't know nothing, never heard of the case'.  The second person - her supervisor - said exactly the same thing.

My orginal claim has now been archived and can't be re-opened BUT they did say that as I was so sure about the result, they would send me a new claim pack and would I return it with a covering letter, details of the case in the European Court etc., my letter also to form an appeal and request for back payment

I'm still waiting for a reply to my original letter tho, sent back in mid-May asking to appeal.

I'll keep you posted folks - Llwyncelyn, any news on the possible movement from their lawyers yet?

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Hi the case has been heard and the transcript is only available in most of the european languages but not English.  French yes but the document is huge and would cost a fortune to translate.

I have a friend who has helped and I can tell you that the case is known to the DLA guys but as they quite rightly say the Advocat General report is not binding on the UK and is certainly not binding upon the full court.  They tend to follow the AG.  But again the HMG does not have to follow the judgment.  It would be wise to do so but they do not have to.

As I say I have made progress and will pm you

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update:

Guess what folks, the pack didn't arrive.  So I called again yesterday and walked straight into Catch-22!!!!!!

Ummmm, never heard of the ruling in the European Court.  OK, your colleague was going to send me a claim pack some weeks ago.  Sorry Sir, you can't have one because you've been out of the country for more than 26 weeks.  But my original claim is closed and I have to have an open claim so you can tell me I can't have it so I can appeal.  But you don't live in the UK.  Yes, I know that so how can I appeal if I need an open file at your office and my file is closed.  We've never heard of this ruling .........

Same conversation with supervisor .........

Same conversation with Customer Relations bloke ......... who toddled off and spoke to the 'decision makers'.

Now by this time I was getting a little tetchy, had a bad few days health wise and was spoiling for a fight by this time, on the phone almost 20 mins etc etc ..............

We can't send you a pack Sir because of the 26 weeks residence rule AGAIN - so how do I appeal?  Tell me how I appeal if I don't have an open file with you?  Please, just explain that to me!!!!!  Stunned silence.  Back to the 'decision makers' who said I could have a pack, which should be with me in ten days.

Watch this space!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Tony,

When the DLA stopped my payments & closed my case I did not appeal the decision - I had moved to France & accepted this explanation.  When I hear about the EU case (6 months later) I appealed the decision & my case was "re-opened".  

It may be easier for you to lodge an appeal on your "old case" rather than re-applying & starting from scratch.  They may have said it was "archived" - but pushing them on this may prove to be the best way to go. 

Good luck!!

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Not that interested Tony, just curious being a founder member of the society for the abolition of TLA's [;-)]

2 years seems to be the magic period for DWP/HMRC, i.e. the E106 is based on previous 2 years NI and only last's for 2 years (or 1 year and a bit if you get the timing wrong !), which I would guess is why you have "disappeared".

I think that to get back into the sysytem you would have to pay full UK NI for 2 years, I hope I'm wrong [+o(]

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have been following the European court case (C-299/05) regarding DLA and if it may be possible to get DLA paid while living elsewhere in the EU.

I sent an email to Anne McGuire on this subject, and also pointing out the change in the health rules in France. I have today received a letter from the Department of Health, at Anne McGuires request, giving an up to date explanation of the position in France, but also more interesting to us who DLA affects, is the following sentence in the letter.

The Court will issue its decision on October 18 and until this point the Department of Health nor the DWP can make any further comment.

So guess we will know one way or the other very soon. Fingers crossed.

----- Original Message -----
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Unfortunately as far as I'm aware the reasons that IB was considered exportable and DLA not was that IB is a health benefit payable because an individual is incapable of working.  A recipient of IB is considered a pensioner while in receipt and is consequently covered by the E121.  DLA is a benefit to assist with any problems faced by someone with a disability regardless of whether of not they are capable of (or currently) working.  Unfortunately the E121 comes with the unable to work status - not the disability. 

Mr Cat 

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When I asked the Dept of Health why my wife did not receive IB, I was told it was because she was not working at the time of the start of her illness, she was at home bringing up our children, doing what the politicians now say is so important, and as she had not paid NI contributions, she was not entitled to IB, it was not due to her condition, which MAY be worse than SOME people who receive IB.

I was paying NI contributions but this does not count. She is unable to work again, but does not qualify for IB based purely on the lack of her NI contributions.

She always planned to return to work when the children grew up, but this is now not going to be possible, seems unfair she cant have an E121, but that's the rules as they stand at present.

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Hi Llwyncelyn - I have tried to send you a private message but it has  been returned to me as being "unable to deliver".  I just wanted to let you know that I have spoken to DWP and they have sent me an appeal form to fill in.  I wondered if you could either help me quote legalities to them within the appeal or check what I say  before I send it?    I don't want to say anything which would be wrong and thus look a complete twat and have my appeal binned.  I am quite prepared to go to UK for a tribunal hearing.  It says on the form that they will arrange a hearing close to my "landing point" - that's nice isn't it???

Thank you for all the hard work you have put into this - and everyone else who is keeping us up to date - well done all.

 

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Have just checked on this today to find out the judgement, can anyone decipher what it actually means?[8-)][:-))]

http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/form.pl?lang=en

then enter: C-299/05 in the case law search, and submit, then select:

C-299/05 Judgement 2007-10-18

This gives the findings of the court, but unfortunately I can't include the full findings in the address bar in it's entirity due to it's length.

From 'my' understanding it implies that 'part' of the DLA component IS transferable overseas, am I reading this right? If my understanding is correct, then I believe that would make those in receipt of it eligible to an E121.

A legal mind on this would be very much appreciated[geek]

 

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Hi folks

Just back from two days of medical stuff in Bordeaux and have received the judgement link - many thanks Mrs ebaynut.

If I've read this right, and it's only a skim through atm, the the judgement partially went against the UK in that part of the DLA will be payable. 

"Temporal effects of this judgment

74      It is necessary, however, for the Court to state that the straightforward annulment of the inclusion of the DLA in the list in Annex IIa as amended would lead to the United Kingdom being forced to grant the ‘mobility’ element of that benefit to an unspecified number of recipients throughout the European Union, although the fact that that part of the DLA is in the nature of a non-contributory benefit cannot be disputed and it could lawfully be included in that list as a non-exportable benefit.

75      That fact warrants the Court exercising the power expressly conferred on it by the second paragraph of Article 231 EC in the event of annulment of a regulation, provisionally to maintain the effects of inclusion of the DLA as regards solely the ‘mobility’ part so that, within a reasonable period, appropriate measures can be taken to include it in Annex IIa as amended."

Now, I take this to mean that DLA is included, apart from the mobility element, because the care element is a non-contributory health benefit - and incidentally, the mobility element was paid to fewer people than the care element, if you got DLA you had to get the care part, mobility was always more difficult to get.

Where's Llewelycyn when you need him - I have a hot form here ready to get into the post and now need to organise the covering letter.

Any other help gratefully received - if we crack this one folks, it's champers all round I think.

 

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Does any of this mean that someone already living here in France and receiving Long Term Incapacity Benefit with a mobility problem can apply for DLA for the first time or does it have to have been already applied for before leaving the UK?
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Good evening like most things the guys in Blackpool are going to take advice!  The next few weeks will be interesting. 

It is quite an interesting concept as to whether one can claim DLA when already resident in France for the judgment was strictly on the exporting of DLA not claiming after one is wherever.

It would be a point of social security law and my advice is to try it and then if they say no go to appeal.  That being the case you need to get a good lawyer around you

 

take care

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