My health "Human Rights " in France

[Frederick]

Can I claim EU "Human Rights " to register with a French doctor for free treatment while I am spending my few months a year in my holiday home .Like the French can if they come to the UK ? If so I could save a few quid on the holiday cover .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9606173/GPs-must-treat-foreign-health-tourists-under-new-guidance-to-promote-human-rights.html#

[NormanH]

You don't need to as you are covered by your EHIC, which gives you the same cover as a French person would have.

If the UK is determined to be out of step with the rest of Europe by giving health cover on the basis of residence, on in this case being on British soil, that is a solely  UK decision.

[Frederick]

I know about my cover with the EHIC Norman in case I have an accident or sudden illness I carry the card .. What I have not done is register with a local doctor ...Perhaps I should then I could wander down and see him if I get the odd twinge ... It would be interesting to know just how many second home owners have signed on with their local doctor in France

[Gardian]

I suppose that there's no reason whatsoever why you shouldn't sign on in the sense of becoming 'known' to a local GP.

If you were to need any treatment, then you'd pay upfront, just like most of us (ALD's being one exception).

The difference would be that you'd get reimbursed when you got back to the UK, as opposed to via your Carte Vitale and the SECU.

I must admit that I don't understand the problem - the system works doesn't it? You take out holiday insurance presumably for repatriation (should it be needed) and any other over and above expense.

[Pommier]

You don't register with a doctor at your holiday address. That's whether your main home is in the UK or France. If you need a doctor make an appointment with any local practice.

[woolybanana]

Fredo is trying to draw attention to the article in the Telegraph which claims that health tourists have to be treated free in UK as it is their human right. And he is wondering whether they would get the same treatment as in France.

I personally find the whole matter very confusing.

[Gardian]

I don't think that its confusing at all.

Over here, if there's an immediate need of hospital treatment, they'll look after you. However ..... sooner or later, they'll want some evidence of your ability to meet the charges that'll arise. How you deal with those charges is frankly a matter for you.

In the UK .................... ????????????????

There's no mechanism, is there? That doesn't mean that what happens in the UK should happen over here.

[Chancer]

No problem with registering with a médéecin in France if its your second home, you can declare him as your médécin traitant should you wish.

You dont have to wait to reclaim your remboursement from Newcastle, you can register with and claim from the CPAM and it will be creditted to your French bank account.

Whilst it should be the same you may well get more refunded in the UK i.e. 100%.

[powerdesal]

It's really not a difficult thing to understand.

As a UK resident, get an EHIC, get medical treatment for any emergency in France, PAY THE BILL.

On return to UK submit the invoice with a claim form and get the money back from the UK authorities.

If, for whatever reason, you either don't re-claim or the claim is rejected ( why would it be ? ) then France still has been paid. You are the 'loser'.

If the UK operated the same system then the same conditions would apply. the UK would have the money. If no EHIC it doesn't matter - the bill should still be paid.

[Frederick]

[quote user="Chancer"]

No problem with registering with a médéecin in France if its your second home, you can declare him as your médécin traitant should you wish.

You dont have to wait to reclaim your remboursement from Newcastle, you can register with and claim from the CPAM and it will be creditted to your French bank account.

Whilst it should be the same you may well get more refunded in the UK i.e. 100%.

[/quote]

Food for thought here Chancer Thank you ... I have for years walked past the Doctors in the next town on market day . It cant hurt to call in and let him know we exist and ask him to include us on his patients list .We are spending longer in France than we were and perhaps its now time to do this ...

[EuroTrash]

I thought the whole point of choosing a medecin traitant was because under the French system, you get a higher reimbursement from your caisse when you use your medecin traitant than if you don't. You fill a form in, you and the doctor sign it and you and send it to your caisse, and they register it. I don't see how this would come into the equation for getting treatment under an EHIC. Who would you send the form to? Do French doctors have a list of patients? I don't think they do, they will treat anyone who comes along, at 23 euros per head, which the patients then reclaim from whatever source.

I think French doctors are going to get awfully confused if lots of non-resident Brits who don't have carte vitales start turning up and asking to register with them.

[woolybanana]

Perhaps you are being very English about this.

Informal, casual patients outside the system, paying cash, equals his lunch in hand, so to speak! Happy doc.

When I was in Belgium and had to see the GP (one I knew), he gave me a reduced rate as it was cash and not through the books. He happy, me happy.

Same, same, jig jig make the worl go roun.[;-)]

[CeeJay]

Can I draw all posters attention to the difficulty I raised last year in having treatment at our local conventionee Clinique and then being charged for it a year later and after submitting an EHIC at the time of treatment. I have been fighting for reimbursement from Newcastle for the past year and have again recently been told that they would not cover the cost as the Clinique is private! End of story as far as they are concerned!!

[EuroTrash]

I know woolyb's tongue is in his cheek, but I don't think French doctors can keep EHIC patients off the books because they have to write out a feuille de soins.

A French doctor tried to explain the system to me once - he had trained at Guy's in London so he knows how both systems work, and he went into so much detail that he lost me completely. But as I recall, the gist of it was that French doctors do not have targets and quotas to meet. Unlike UK doctors who apparently are paid by the NHS relative to the number of patients they have on their books and not per appointment, French doctors get paid per appointment and keep their own books, so patients aren't either 'inside' or 'outside' the system, they're all just patients. So whereas UK doctors presumably love having patients on their books who never go to see them, French doctors are interested in people that makes appointments.

[Gardian]

For me, this thread does raise the question that I've often wondered the answer to. What exactly is the point of an EHIC card?

If any visitor needed to visit our local GP and produced their EHIC card, the secretary would scrutinise it and say "Interesting piece of plastic, but I'd still like €23 please".

Similarly at the hospital - if a visitor were to be hospitalised, I somehow doubt that the card would exonerate them from payment.

I'm pretty sure that not having a card doesn't disqualify you from reimbursement via Newcastle, so what is the point of the thing?

[Cendrillon]

I guess at the very least it is a form of formal identification and shows that you are registered with the NHS

[EuroTrash]

If a UK EHIC holder is treated in a French hospital, they are not charged on the spot. They take details of your EHIC card and enter it onto their computer and you don't have to pay anything on the spot, the bill is sent to you UK address and I believe you pass it on to Newcastle.

I suspect that if you couldn't produce an EHIC, you would have to cough up however many thousands of euros it was on the spot.

I don't know if you would get a reimbursement if you didn't have a valid EHIC card at the time of the treatment. Certainly you wouldn't be able to claim anything back via CPAM while you were still in France, as the process involves having your EHIC checked. Maybe you could claim from Newcastle , but you would have some arguing to do first.

[woolybanana]

So, a person unable to indentify themselves satisfactorily would be treated and given a bill? How would payment be enforced?

[Frederick]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

Perhaps you are being very English about this.

Informal, casual patients outside the system, paying cash, equals his lunch in hand, so to speak! Happy doc.

When I was in Belgium and had to see the GP (one I knew), he gave me a reduced rate as it was cash and not through the books. He happy, me happy.

Same, same, jig jig make the worl go roun.[;-)]

[/quote]

I have a dentist I am happy to visit in France ... She is very good and cheaper than my UK one ... I pay her in cash If she cant see me the day I call I am seen the following day ... I dont have the name and phone number to call out a doctor if we needed one

On my next visit I think I will fix that .

[EuroTrash]

If you went along for non-emergency treatment but didn't have a passport and couldn't identify yourself, I can't see you getting past the reception desk. Have you been to a French hospital or even worse a Spanish one? If computer say no, answer is no.

[woolybanana]

Touch wood, fingers in my ears, legs round my head, toes crossed and a bunch of devil's herbs round my neck, plus a good joint in my gob, never!

[powerdesal]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]If a UK EHIC holder is treated in a French hospital, they are not charged on the spot. They take details of your EHIC card and enter it onto their computer and you don't have to pay anything on the spot, the bill is sent to you UK address and I believe you pass it on to Newcastle.

I suspect that if you couldn't produce an EHIC, you would have to cough up however many thousands of euros it was on the spot.

I don't know if you would get a reimbursement if you didn't have a valid EHIC card at the time of the treatment. Certainly you wouldn't be able to claim anything back via CPAM while you were still in France, as the process involves having your EHIC checked. Maybe you could claim from Newcastle , but you would have some arguing to do first.[/quote]

Not quite true Euro trash.

Yes, the bill can be sent to your UK address but you then have to pay it ( they even include an SAE with the bill ), then, having got the receipt, you have to phone Newcastle to ask for a claim form, when the claim form is received you return it to Newcastle with the original receipt. The money then gets credited to your specified account.

Equally,you can request the bill at the time of discharge, pay it and get a receipt, then as above when you return to UK.

That is most certainly how it works at Avranche Hospital, we have had two instances, one done each way.

Having had emergency treatment ( no admittance ) on one occasion, no bill was produced - why - I have no idea.

[woolybanana]

Aren't EU members obliged to give emergency treatment free for citizens of EU countries?

[EuroTrash]

"the bill can be sent to your UK address but you then have to pay it ( they even include an SAE with the bill ), then, having got the receipt, you have to phone Newcastle to ask for a claim form, when the claim form is received you return it to Newcastle with the original receipt. The money then gets credited to your specified account."

Alternatively, if you have insurance you send the bill to your insurers and they sort it all out for you :)

[AnOther]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Aren't EU members obliged to give emergency treatment free for citizens of EU countries?[/quote]

http://europa.eu/eu-life/healthcare/index_en.htm